hey imran
- vO)))id
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Re: hey imran
also hey ndmg
- Grudge
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Re: hey imran
1) Universal basic income is a very bad idea. This discussion by professor Paul Cockshott is very informative. See also his blog post about it. https://youtu.be/QGBQwZsp3T0
2) automation generally represents progress and is ultimately where humanity needs to go. However the character of this automation in so far as an army of jobless subsistence-less people become poor while those who, I don't know by what divine right, own these machines that automate, become unassailably wealthy, will have to be changed. The machines that automate must be publicly owned for the benefit of the public. Society will have to recalibrate capitalist ownership laws in order to survive.
2) automation generally represents progress and is ultimately where humanity needs to go. However the character of this automation in so far as an army of jobless subsistence-less people become poor while those who, I don't know by what divine right, own these machines that automate, become unassailably wealthy, will have to be changed. The machines that automate must be publicly owned for the benefit of the public. Society will have to recalibrate capitalist ownership laws in order to survive.
- Ninny
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Re: hey imran
Professor Cockshott
- Grudge
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Re: hey imran
What do you think about universal basic income? What did you think of the critique of it that I shared?
- Grudge
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Re: hey imran
Universal basic income will ultimately result in a net loss for people.
- zim
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Re: hey imran
I've been a little busy but I am planning on watching that video and following up.The Ultimate wrote:What do you think about universal basic income? What did you think of the critique of it that I shared?
Say these future automation machines aren't owned by the people, how will low skilled / non-specialized / uneducated people support themselves without some kind of universal basic income?
There was a UBI experiment performed in Canada in the 70's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome
She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidents of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from accidents and injuries.[11] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals.
- Grudge
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Re: hey imran
I am at an airport so can't read and write in detail but a couple of high level thoughts.
1) is UBI enough for subsistence. That is doubtful.
2) if the assumption is that public ownership of machines will not happen because of political resistance then we must be consistent and also assume that UBI will be equally difficult because of the severe opposition of conservative parties around the world to welfare programs, particularly in the US.
1) is UBI enough for subsistence. That is doubtful.
2) if the assumption is that public ownership of machines will not happen because of political resistance then we must be consistent and also assume that UBI will be equally difficult because of the severe opposition of conservative parties around the world to welfare programs, particularly in the US.
- Grudge
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Re: hey imran
Also who in this day and age in the Western world is uneducated.
- zim
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Re: hey imran
by 'uneducated' i more or less mean people who dropped out of grade school or most people in the south
- jawn galliano
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Re: hey imran
i cannot speak to the western world at large, but with respect to america in particular, if your measurement for education is 'has a college degree', the answer to your question is 'most people'.The Ultimate wrote:Also who in this day and age in the Western world is uneducated.
i am skeptical of UBI schemes as the only way such a thing will come to fruition in the current US political landscape is as a catch-all replacement for social spending
which, of course, will result in massive cuts to social spending overall
probably also it would be used as justification for eliminating even more labor protections
- jawn galliano
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Re: hey imran
also i would strongly caution against thinking that education, skills, or your current level of job security in any way insulates you against displacement by automation
they're coming for us all. especially the skilled and educated ones, because they cost more!
they're coming for us all. especially the skilled and educated ones, because they cost more!
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: hey imran
Them long haul drivers are ready to fight off the robots
- GMDN
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Re: hey imran
Welcome to the new world order children, i said this to you guys over a decade ago.
- shadowalk
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Re: hey imran
it's been in a decade since i've known NDMG
- zim
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Re: hey imran
that is clearly imran trolling
- GMDN
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Re: hey imran
Im not imran for the 100th time
- zim
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Re: hey imran
post a selfie with this thread in the background and i'll paypal you $20 bucks
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: hey imran
zim wrote:post a selfie with this thread in the background and zim will paypal you $20 bucks