hey imran

Shoot the shit with other metal folk. Free discussion on any topic that doesn't suit the other forums. Avoid mentioning carpet.
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zim
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hey imran

Post by zim »

what are your thoughts about the ever growing automation of menial jobs and the inexorable displacement of blue collar workers? what do you think of a universal basic income?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
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vO)))id
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Re: hey imran

Post by vO)))id »

also hey ndmg
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Grudge
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Post by Grudge »

1) Universal basic income is a very bad idea. This discussion by professor Paul Cockshott is very informative. See also his blog post about it. https://youtu.be/QGBQwZsp3T0

2) automation generally represents progress and is ultimately where humanity needs to go. However the character of this automation in so far as an army of jobless subsistence-less people become poor while those who, I don't know by what divine right, own these machines that automate, become unassailably wealthy, will have to be changed. The machines that automate must be publicly owned for the benefit of the public. Society will have to recalibrate capitalist ownership laws in order to survive.
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Ninny
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Post by Ninny »

Professor Cockshott :hard-on bearer:
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Grudge
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Post by Grudge »

What do you think about universal basic income? What did you think of the critique of it that I shared?
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Grudge
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Post by Grudge »

Universal basic income will ultimately result in a net loss for people.
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zim
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Post by zim »

The Ultimate wrote:What do you think about universal basic income? What did you think of the critique of it that I shared?
I've been a little busy but I am planning on watching that video and following up.

Say these future automation machines aren't owned by the people, how will low skilled / non-specialized / uneducated people support themselves without some kind of universal basic income?

There was a UBI experiment performed in Canada in the 70's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome
She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidents of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from accidents and injuries.[11] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals.
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Grudge
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Post by Grudge »

I am at an airport so can't read and write in detail but a couple of high level thoughts.

1) is UBI enough for subsistence. That is doubtful.
2) if the assumption is that public ownership of machines will not happen because of political resistance then we must be consistent and also assume that UBI will be equally difficult because of the severe opposition of conservative parties around the world to welfare programs, particularly in the US.
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Grudge
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Post by Grudge »

Also who in this day and age in the Western world is uneducated.
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zim
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Post by zim »

by 'uneducated' i more or less mean people who dropped out of grade school or most people in the south
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jawn galliano
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Post by jawn galliano »

The Ultimate wrote:Also who in this day and age in the Western world is uneducated.
i cannot speak to the western world at large, but with respect to america in particular, if your measurement for education is 'has a college degree', the answer to your question is 'most people'.

i am skeptical of UBI schemes as the only way such a thing will come to fruition in the current US political landscape is as a catch-all replacement for social spending

which, of course, will result in massive cuts to social spending overall

probably also it would be used as justification for eliminating even more labor protections
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jawn galliano
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Post by jawn galliano »

also i would strongly caution against thinking that education, skills, or your current level of job security in any way insulates you against displacement by automation

they're coming for us all. especially the skilled and educated ones, because they cost more!
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Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: hey imran

Post by Methuselah Honeysuckle »

Them long haul drivers are ready to fight off the robots
vega wrote:But when I am meeting she is a round circle like egg. :oldryan: . She is eating 88% of foods and I am paying 100% bill.
Ninny wrote:
10 Oct 2021, 21:53
but now I want to suck her soft parts.
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GMDN
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Re: hey imran

Post by GMDN »

Welcome to the new world order children, i said this to you guys over a decade ago.
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shadowalk
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Re: hey imran

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it's been in a decade since i've known NDMG :huh:
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zim
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Post by zim »

that is clearly imran trolling
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GMDN
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Post by GMDN »

Im not imran for the 100th time
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zim
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Re: hey imran

Post by zim »

post a selfie with this thread in the background and i'll paypal you $20 bucks
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Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: hey imran

Post by Methuselah Honeysuckle »

zim wrote:post a selfie with this thread in the background and zim will paypal you $20 bucks
vega wrote:But when I am meeting she is a round circle like egg. :oldryan: . She is eating 88% of foods and I am paying 100% bill.
Ninny wrote:
10 Oct 2021, 21:53
but now I want to suck her soft parts.
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