Why don't people like Heretic?

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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Abzu »

[quote name="Verbal"]Isn't quoting yourself in your sig an arrogant thing to do?



Even if it is gibberish.[/quote]
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Gmajnar »

To me it's not arrogant to quote your own saying if you really feel those words.

Like it's not arrogant to record your own music and let others to hear it, if you really live and breath that music.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Hallucinating dead »

[quote name="Gmajnar"]To me it's not arrogant to quote your own saying if you really feel those words.

Like it's not arrogant to record your own music and let others to hear it, if you really live and breath that music.[/quote]



so in that case, for you quoting someone else's words is like coping others music ? :lol:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Gmajnar »

Why are you making me laught at you? :redneck:

I hope this wasn't the first thing in your mind after you've read my post?
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by MorbidAngela »

No, it is not an arrogant thing to do. .. It is more of an independent thing to do. I don't rely on others to write awesome things for me.. I make my own path... Just like Morbid Angel...and if you don't agree with it then don't even waste your energy trying to change it because you won't get anywhere.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by bob_here »

[quote name="MorbidAngela"]
[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]

Being "original" is not doing something new. In fact, eventually, nothing will be new. There will only be scales and degrees of quality.

Original should denote being yourself. If it stands out, it stands out.

Morbid Angel were a force to be reckoned with and totally didn't need a gimick or something out of left field to be "good". They were good by virtue of BEING THEMSELVES; being morbid Angel. It's not cool or original to try and redefine what you should be, it's lame. I said it before, all of their previous albums are distinct but contigous. There was a natural evolution and flow with their stamp still on it. Illud jump the shark. Better yet, Illud is the symbol and sign of having jumped the shark: the indicator of something else occuring.[/quote]

You do have a point.... but, I can't really find the words to exactly explain what i meant by original or even what i was trying to formulate into words.. & i really don't want to spend a lot of time thinking about it, either... MA does their own thing...I'll leave it at that.

\M/[/quote]





Sure we can't express the intrisic feelings of MA. "Originality" as a general word for me denotes something that stands out. That means it doesn't have to be new. It just needs to -- stand out. MA was always a band that stood out for me and as a safe assumption for many others, including members on this board of course. Now since MA has introduced a totally different vibe and approach for Illud the integrity in what identifies MA as MA and what the history of itself has illustrated came into question. Most contention, I know mine at least, on this forum has really been about that. Whoever wants to embrace the new vibe and album is TOTALLY free to, without ridicule; save the tongue and cheek, joking around ridicule on occasionan which is nothing more than fraternal horseplay :hard-on bearer: But just to drive my inital point home, it's not necessarily about trying to pinpoint the exact feelings just in understanding that atmosphere in what we used to feel as MA is supplanted by something different by way of this event and new album unfolding.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by deckard »

heretic is boring.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by darkreignofset »

Best MA record ever! Awesome riffs and arrangements of the songs, sick instrumentals, badass pete drum check, sickening vokills and lyrics. Production aswell very organic and not super polished. killer guitar tone And the lava flows- its a masterpiece
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Phantoon »

[quote name="darkreignofset"]Best MA record ever! Awesome riffs and arrangements of the songs, sick instrumentals, badass pete drum check, sickening vokills and lyrics. Production aswell very organic and not super polished. killer guitar tone And the lava flows- its a masterpiece[/quote]



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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by VARG »

I once spoked with Punchy about the production and recording of Heretic in general.

He said he feels a little bad people blame him for how the sound on the record turned out, because Trey was in control of everything and wanted that sound for the album.

He said that the length of the songs had a certain meaning, and that Trey sat down to do math before recording a song, to come up with the exact length it was suposed to have.

I wonder if he did that on Illud.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by ^_____________^ »

[quote name="VARG"]I once spoked with Punchy about the production and recording of Heretic in general.

He said he feels a little bad people blame him for how the sound on the record turned out, because Trey was in control of everything and wanted that sound for the album.

He said that the length of the songs had a certain meaning, and that Trey sat down to do math before recording a song, to come up with the exact length it was suposed to have.

I wonder if he did that on Illud.[/quote]

Bob made a post about this significance of the length of the songs in the past I think.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by RitesOfPossession »

[quote name="^_____________^"]Bob made a post about this significance of the length of the songs in the past I think.[/quote]

Could you link to this? I'd be interested to read it.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by ^_____________^ »

It's this video:



[youtube]XKeGLoet9Sk[/youtube]



:santa:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by RitesOfPossession »

I've watched that video before... it pretty interesting stuff. :idea:



But if anyone has any insights into what the actual length of each track on Heretic symbolises or represents that would be even better. :interessant:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by xr2m »

I've never understood why so many people seem to hate "Heretic." Perhaps it's the weird production? Yes, I wish the bass guitar was actually present, but what matters are the actual songs, and all of them are great, IMO. Tracks like "Stricken Arise" take me back to the early MA days. Yeah, there are filler tracks at the end of the disc, but this album is unfairly maligned by most. Actually, the obscure production gives it a lot of charm.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by ^_____________^ »

I like weird production, it gives records personality. I think that's probably what Trey was going for with this one.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by xr2m »

[quote name="^_____________^"]I like weird production, it gives records personality. I think that's probably what Trey was going for with this one.[/quote]



Absolutely! "Heretic" has a special charm that most people have missed. Honestly, I'm probably the only person I know that loves this album and ranks it much higher than "Gateways" or "Domination." Oh well, to each his own...
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by ^_____________^ »

I rank it with Formulas and Heretic. Gateways is my least favorite Tucker album but the Tucker era is my absolute favorite and that should in no way demean the quality of G. I also hate Domination :santa:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by xr2m »

[quote name="^_____________^"]I rank it with Formulas and Heretic. Gateways is my least favorite Tucker album but the Tucker era is my absolute favorite and that should in no way demean the quality of G. I also hate Domination :santa:[/quote]



Yeah, Gateways is my least favorite Tucker album as well, even though it's a great CD. I'd currently rank the MA albums kind of like this (not ranking Entangled since it's a live album):



Altars

Formulas

Covenant

Blessed

Abominations

Heretic

Gateways

.

.

.

.

Domination

.

.

.

.

.

Illud :oldryan:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by ^_____________^ »

Formulas is top for me. Abominations is also one of my favorites, and my order for best MA albums is always changing.



Currently, it looks like this I think:



Formulas/Heretic

Abominations of Desolation

Gateways

Altars of Madness

Covenant

Blessed are the Sick

Domination

Illud



I really hate that damn drum sound on Blessed, it's fucking way too loud, clicky, and annoying. It gets in the way of the actual music, which is fucking incredible. However, you can't get better than Nothing is Not / Invocation!
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Tea »

I also think Heretic has a really cool atmosphere to it. It's very dark, and less so in the evil wicked sense, but more kind of dark in the bleak, depressing manner kind of like black metal. Maybe that's just me, but songs like Place of Many Deaths, the slow part in Cleansed in Pestilence, the downtempo riff in Curse the Flesh, etc. all convey a sense of hopelessness to me :idea: It's a very different atmosphere to other MA albums I think, but I definitely believe it's one of the best atmospheres and moods that Trey has created :xx:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Svartmetall »

I'm still conflicted about 'Heretic', to be honest. 'Place Of Many Deaths' is hands-down one of my favourite MA pieces of any kind, I love the deep, rich atmosphere that thing has - it's how I imagine the Delville painting on the cover of 'Blessed...' would sound, a kind of Art Nouveau Hell. What kills it for me more than anything else is, no surprise here, the production - thin, tinny and buzzy guitars, no bass to speak of and no ambience or 'life' at all to the sound; there are some killer riffs on there, but the production just robs them of any power. Sonically I still think 'Covenant' has the best production of any MA album; the vocals roar but are intelligible, the guitars are thick and powerful but never muddy as they sometimes are on 'Domination', the bass is fat and clearly audible but never intrusive, and the drums have the perfect mix of power and clarity.



In fact there's something that bugs me a lot...as anyone who's spent more than 30 seconds in a rehearsal room will tell you, bass drums do NOT go 'click click click' in real life, and I have never for the life of me been able to understand why so many extreme metal albums have this horrible thin clicking sound to the bass drums with no power whatsoever - merely tickling your ears when in actual fact they should be punching you in the fucking chest. Shame on you, metal producers! Shame! :shakefist:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by ^_____________^ »

[quote name="Svartmetall"]In fact there's something that bugs me a lot...as anyone who's spent more than 30 seconds in a rehearsal room will tell you, bass drums do NOT go 'click click click' in real life, and I have never for the life of me been able to understand why so many extreme metal albums have this horrible thin clicking sound to the bass drums with no power whatsoever - merely tickling your ears when in actual fact they should be punching you in the fucking chest. Shame on you, metal producers! Shame! :shakefist:[/quote]



YES! THANK YOU!



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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Abzu »

[quote name="^_____________^"]
[quote name="Svartmetall"]In fact there's something that bugs me a lot...as anyone who's spent more than 30 seconds in a rehearsal room will tell you, bass drums do NOT go 'click click click' in real life, and I have never for the life of me been able to understand why so many extreme metal albums have this horrible thin clicking sound to the bass drums with no power whatsoever - merely tickling your ears when in actual fact they should be punching you in the fucking chest. Shame on you, metal producers! Shame! :shakefist:[/quote]



YES! THANK YOU!



:clap:[/quote]
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by bob_here »

[quote name="Svartmetall"]

In fact there's something that bugs me a lot...as anyone who's spent more than 30 seconds in a rehearsal room will tell you, bass drums do NOT go 'click click click' in real life, and I have never for the life of me been able to understand why so many extreme metal albums have this horrible thin clicking sound to the bass drums with no power whatsoever - merely tickling your ears when in actual fact they should be punching you in the fucking chest. Shame on you, metal producers! Shame! :shakefist:[/quote]





This phenemona can defnitely be traced to increases in overall program loudness. No such thing as a free lunch, so as we got closer to the end of the decade in the 90's where loudness starting becoming the end-game for producers in a low-brow inane competition, something had to be done in order to achieve it. Low frequencies take a lot of spectral space so they had to be dealt with. Little by little, kick drums started to lose their power but in turn had their high frequency recognition increased to fool the ear in making it think a kick drum is in fact there. There's of course a nice balance you can achieve like on Gojira's album the Link: tell me that kick drum and overall production actually doesn't cave your chest in but with clarity! My point being, there are amazing ways one can actually get the cake and eat it too. I've actually read several times that Trey found low end "useless" and he did prefer to remove a good amount of it. This was referred to as well when he was talking about the Entangled production which he was at the helm of.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Conservative_Heretic »

[quote name="TranscendingMusic"] I've actually read several times that Trey found low end "useless" and he did prefer to remove a good amount of it. This was referred to as well when he was talking about the Entangled production which he was at the helm of.[/quote]

That explains why the listen to me is disappointing. I figured this would be the album (Entangled) that would sound very good, close as you could get to being at a live show, but overall was very disappointing album to me. Most of the bootlegs sound way better. I would still like to see a professionally recorded live-show, with a continuous set list, but doubt it will happen. But then again if it is like Entangled would be, then I leave it to the amateurs with the iPhone, they seem to capture that rawness better.



Once again TM you are hitting it on the head with the production issues with Heretic. I do find I am enjoying it much more than I had previously since i have been listening to it a LOT more lately.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by claudeofemptiness »

i like heretic. it grew on me. it took a while for me to "decode" the music so i could better understand it. i guess it would be comparable to when i first heard trout mask replica by captain beefheart. the first week i had that album, i was pissed, and then one day i was driving while cranking it and it clicked. it made sense after that.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by bob_here »

[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]That explains why the listen to me is disappointing. I figured this would be the album (Entangled) that would sound very good, close as you could get to being at a live show, but overall was very disappointing album to me. Most of the bootlegs sound way better. I would still like to see a professionally recorded live-show, with a continuous set list, but doubt it will happen. But then again if it is like Entangled would be, then I leave it to the amateurs with the iPhone, they seem to capture that rawness better.



Once again TM you are hitting it on the head with the production issues with Heretic. I do find I am enjoying it much more than I had previously since i have been listening to it a LOT more lately.[/quote]



I hear you man, and not for nothing at least Heretic gives it a creative and constitutional effort at what MA is/was. Illud, well, doesn't.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by H4T3M4CH1N3 »

I believe it's all prejudice due to Disco D being absent from MA. Average retarded hard-on bearer skips the Tucker trilogy :frown:...
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Punchiest »

The thing that most folks never could understand about Morbid Angel and all the productions they have done is this......



This is what they dig at the time they are doing it.

It really has nothing to do with what you dig.

Dig?



Heretic has many things about it that were designed that way so that it would be different and so that people would still be trying to figure it out years later.

The word "Heretic" is defined as anything that is against the norm.

If you were looking for anything normal...well...buy some beer swinging music.

If you are looking for your "A-typical" blasphemy....well....there's a cookie cutter factory somewhere that spits out that kind of thing.



This record is an intellectual record. If you cannot understand it...keep trying.



P
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by jawn galliano »

i don't really have anything constructive or substantial to say at this hour, but welcome to the board :santa: good to have you aboard
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Uni777 »

[quote name="Punchiest"]The thing that most folks never could understand about Morbid Angel and all the productions they have done is this......



This is what they dig at the time they are doing it.

It really has nothing to do with what you dig.

Dig?



Heretic has many things about it that were designed that way so that it would be different and so that people would still be trying to figure it out years later.

The word "Heretic" is defined as anything that is against the norm.

If you were looking for anything normal...well...buy some beer swinging music.

If you are looking for your "A-typical" blasphemy....well....there's a cookie cutter factory somewhere that spits out that kind of thing.



This record is an intellectual record. If you cannot understand it...keep trying.



P[/quote]

Hi there P,



The production does make sence in that respect. The same as Immortal's Blizard beasts. The sound fits the concept and ideas of the songs.



But when asked: Why do you think people don't like Heretic. The sound is a big part of that. You told me yourself that Trey thought H was the first record he really liked guitar-tone wise. And thats what counts.... The artists being happy with the result. But i think for the average listener the production is hard to get into.



Personally i think some songs are a little to elaborate. I think they could have been a little more compact.



Would you mind answering some production questions? I am geniualy interested in what the ideas behind some sounds were.



And for the record, if any of my comments would sound rude/insulting (except for the obvious jokes) it is because i am Dutch so language is a bit of a barrier. It is not intended.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by shubniggurath »

[quote name="Punchiest"]The thing that most folks never could understand about Morbid Angel and all the productions they have done is this......



This is what they dig at the time they are doing it.

It really has nothing to do with what you dig.

Dig?[/quote]

I think that most everyone that's followed the band for a while realizes that they do what they want, and don't write "for the fans." If you think that we're unaware of that, then you're not giving us enough credit.



[quote name="Punchiest"]Heretic has many things about it that were designed that way so that it would be different and so that people would still be trying to figure it out years later.[/quote]

Well, if that's the case, it sounds like Trey was writing such that he'd get a specific reaction from the fans, like puzzlement. You would know that better than I would, but I find it surprising. I'd be surprised if he had the fans in mind at all when writing it, and rightfully so.



[quote name="Punchiest"]

The word "Heretic" is defined as anything that is against the norm.[/quote]

Even if the record were called "Hey Now" I think that the heretical nature of Morbid Angel has always been evident.



[quote name="Punchiest"]

If you were looking for anything normal...well...buy some beer swinging music.

If you are looking for your "A-typical" blasphemy....well....there's a cookie cutter factory somewhere that spits out that kind of thing.

[/quote]

We were looking for a Morbid Angel album, and we got one. I just wasn't crazy about the mix, and I'm not the only one. (For the record, I'm not one of the guys that says "Heretic sounds shitty, Punchy fucked it up;" like I said, I think it probably came out exactly the way the client wanted it to.) Some people weren't really into the labyrinthine style of songwriting; I think the songs themselves are really good, and I think that THAT is the intrinsically challenging, heretical aspect of the record, not the overall sonic "signature" of the album. I think Heretic would have been just as interesting if it would have had a powerful mix. Clearly that's not what Trey was going for. Having a thin mix that doesn't even approximate the power of the band playing doesn't make the mix abnormal or atypical or heretical or what have you, it just makes it a thin and IMO largely unsatisfying mix. Again, I don't put the blame for that on the mixer, if the mixer made it sound the way the artist wanted it to. I also have read that Trey loved the way it sounded, so in that respect I think you must have nailed it.



[quote name="Punchiest"]

This record is an intellectual record. If you cannot understand it...keep trying.



P[/quote]

Some of us just don't like things about it. No amount of "trying to understand it" is likely to change that. Be careful that you don't equate disliking aspects of it with not understanding those aspects. I actually really like Heretic musically, I just don't care for it sonically. I still listen to it, but not nearly as often as any of the others (except for Illud).



I'm glad you registered and hope that you will post often. I appreciate any insight into the band's creative process, especially from someone that's participated directly.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by jawn galliano »

[quote name="slimegod"]Well, if that's the case, it sounds like Trey was writing such that he'd get a specific reaction from the fans, like puzzlement. You would know that better than I would, but I find it surprising. I'd be surprised if he had the fans in mind at all when writing it, and rightfully so.[/quote]



for what it's worth, i was fortunate enough to hear firsthand about (and listen to some of the prototype recordings of) some of the H material before it was all nailed down and recorded in the studio, and trey was 100% into the musical/structural/technical ideas in play. as you say, anything to the contrary would be surprising indeed. i would imagine if fan reactions ever did enter into the equation, it was as an afterthought.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by vicek668 »

heretic is death metal .iluid is pure schit :tear:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by H4T3M4CH1N3 »

[quote name="Punchiest"]

Heretic has many things about it that were designed that way so that it would be different and so that people would still be trying to figure it out years later.[/quote]



They surely succeeded on this. 8 years have passed and you can see that people is still trying to find out what's the deal with "Heretic" and all the aspects involved on it.



[quote name="Punchiest"]The word "Heretic" is defined as anything that is against the norm.

If you were looking for anything normal...well...buy some beer swinging music.[/quote]



MA has always been evolving*, rather than keeping stuck at some point. Every MA connoisseur knows this.

*I'll Dive InSomeAnus doesn't count for very obvious reasons...



[quote name="Punchiest"]This record is an intellectual record. If you cannot understand it...keep trying.



P[/quote]



Oh yeah... but average hard-on bearer can't tell it as most of them are focused on getting straight Death Metal onto their ears.

I really like the approach on Heretic, I feel it as a very personal record (Take for example Trey's love for Quake III and "Place Of Many Deaths" song)
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Punchiest »

I have read everyone's responses and I do thank everyone for welcoming me here on this forum.

I am getting a real giggle from the "IDI" haters and the "production technique" speculators.

Does anyone have any questions, or is this the first opportunity some have had to complain about stuff to someone inside ? ;)



All I can say is half of the speculation is correct, the other half is half correct, and the other half is half wrong.

Everybody is right and everyone is wrong.



The first thing:



Heretic was not mastered to a CD standard, but to a vinyl one. There is 5 db of dynamic range (as opposed to 1.5 on normal stuff in 2003...today if you have .75 that is a lot). The trick to listening to the record is the same trick you had back in the day with vinyl. You have to listen to it as a piece of work.



If the record is in "shuffle" mode with other recordings, it will sound very different, and alien.



There is low end, but you have to crank the overall volume up....like you would with a record (vinyl).

Modern day records begin to distort easily before actual "LOUDNESS" is reached.

The decision to do that was Trey. He did not like the way modern records sound so boring and don't "chew."

We listened to his favorite records of yesteryear and we went with that vibe.



Hindsight is always 20/20. We had plenty of discussions regarding the mix of this record while we were doing it.

There is an alternate version that was mixed prior to the version everyone hears which has more of a Cov/Form dark kind of feel.

Trey felt that it was to "mushy" and did not "chew" enough.



There is even a "Place of Many" with vocals on it.



Heretic is one of those "masterpiece" type records that is really for those with a Morbidly discernible taste.

Most people that like beer don't necessarily like DARK beer or LAGERS.

The thing that I find kind of funny is how PASSIONATE people are about how much they DON'T like something.



You would think that this record fucked your mother without lube and filmed it the way some people talk about it !



Fire away



P
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Mutilator
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Mutilator »

Welcome to the board, Punchy. :santa:



Very interested in that alternate version; any chance for a release? :bang: :thingy:
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vO)))id
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by vO)))id »

Interesting stuff about the mastering there. Thanks for the info. I've been thinking about these things as well while doing my own productions, especially the whole Loudness War and stuff. I really didn't want to compete with that since it just kills a lot of the dynamic range of a record. I don't want my mixes to sound that way, so the mastering should be that last icing instead of burning the cake, if you know what I mean.



Basically the thing about Illud that bothers me, and again this is simply a matter of taste, is the songwriting, the lyrics and the overall image. I don't think the production is even that bad or anything, sure to me it sounds very modern and if I had mixed it it would of course sound different. But if the band is completely happy with how it turned out, then its engineer or producer shouldn't stand in their way. But whatever, at the end of the day they took a direction that I'm not a fan of.



Anyway, I still love Heretic and never had a big problem with it's production.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Punchiest »

yeah....



Mastering is an icing thing...but generally...when doing mixes, it is good to get a "quick" master in so you have a direction to go in.



Listen to IDI for the songs you like and move on. The traditional stuff sounds as authentic as it can get...so enjoy the record for that.

Holding on to something that you are not going to get is just counterproductive IMHO. When we were tracking the record, I remember saying to the guys, "People are going to get uppity about this."



If you think about it, "IDI" is probably the most "satanic" thing they or any other "paganistic" band has put out in a loooooong time.....look at all the hate it has garnered!!!



P
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Mutilator »

It should not invoke hate by it's fans because of it's mediocrity (I'm convinced it's major dissapointment actually rather then hate) : it should fuck the world by strenght and invoke hate by the infidels.



Anyhow;



Dear Mr. Punchy: I'd like to ask you a question: how is it possible that the Morbid guys consider this extreme when the death metal mixing with gabba/techno has been done way more intense before by the Berzerker and Bong-ra?

I expected it to have an oldschool terrorbeat with booming bass and panic-style Trey soloing instead of a drummer impersonating a drummachine..? :huh:



And riffing with dead stops in Existo and I am Morbid? How can this reach the intensity that Morbid Angel was known for?



And why abandon an original style by copying Rob Zombie with Radikult?
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by vO)))id »

[quote name="Punchiest"]yeah....



Mastering is an icing thing...but generally...when doing mixes, it is good to get a "quick" master in so you have a direction to go in.



Listen to IDI for the songs you like and move on. The traditional stuff sounds as authentic as it can get...so enjoy the record for that.

Holding on to something that you are not going to get is just counterproductive IMHO.



P[/quote]



Agreed, and that's exactly what I did. I listened to IDI a couple of times, really sat for it, but not overly trying to get it. It doesn't appeal to me so I just went on listening to other stuff, or other Morbid Angel records. There's SO incredibly much great music in this world, so it only makes sense to move on.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Punchiest »

[quote name="Mutilator"]It should not invoke hate by it's fans because of it's mediocrity (I'm convinced it's major dissapointment actually rather then hate) : it should fuck the world by strenght and invoke hate by the infidels.







I hear ya....but that is your perspective.







Anyhow;



Dear Mr. Punchy: I'd like to ask you a question: how is it possible that the Morbid guys consider this extreme when the death metal mixing with gabba/techno has been done way more intense before by the Berzerker and Bong-ra?

I expected it to have an oldschool terrorbeat with booming bass and panic-style Trey soloing instead of a drummer impersonating a drummachine..? :huh:



And riffing with dead stops in Existo and I am Morbid? How can this reach the intensity that Morbid Angel was known for?



And why abandon an original style by copying Rob Zombie with Radikult?[/quote]








As far as why Trey, David, and D-Thor wrote the songs the way they did...I can only speculate like you.

I can say this, they are all 100% into what they are doing here. Everyone also has to understand that the Morbid Angel bus has a very eclectic mix of music being played in its lounges. More than likely, you are not going to hear an awful lot of death metal.

Morbid is much more than a death metal band.

(NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT)



I remember when Cov came out and "GOD OF" was the "RADIKULT" of that record.

But fans would come up to the band and practically start crying (a lot like what I read here) about "WHY WOULD YOU LET DAVID SING AT THE END OF THE SONG??" and "THIS IS GAY!" When the band showed up on Beavis and Butthead the fans cried out in FANZINES all over the world...."MORBID SELLS OUT!!"



I remember a fan coming up to Rutan and saying about DOM, "Man, I really like the new record....but HATEWORK fucking sucks!"

Rutan looked at that hard-on bearer and could not help but laugh!



There was just no internet for everyday people to "publicly hate" on it.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Mutilator »

Projecting past reactions to clean singing on GOE or the past reactions when BATS came out to the reactions to IDI are not comparable with today's open-mindedness of metalheads compared to the old days when even keyboards 'weren't allowed'. Times have changed and so have the metalfans evolved. The succes of far-fetched techdeath like Cynic proves this (in the past they got boo-ed at).



I'm not critisizing the odd-death metal influences: A lot of death metal is mixed with other musical styles and have proven that it can work.



It's the execution of it all that makes me fear they've become old and tired...
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Punchiest »

[quote name="Mutilator"]Projecting past reactions to clean singing on GOE or the past reactions when BATS came out to the reactions to IDI are not comparable with today's open-mindedness of metalheads compared to the old days where even keyboards 'weren't allowed' yet. [/quote]





I disagree with you. If anything, the early 90's had much more tolerance for keys than today.

True...there was no popular version of black metal yet (a genre soaking with keys) but metal was loaded with keys. Trust me-GOE was the HATED song in its day.





[quote name="Mutilator"]



I'm not critisizing the odd-death metal influences: A lot of death metal is mixed with other musical styles and have proven that it can work.



It's the execution of it all that makes me fear they've become old and tired...[/quote]







And how will you deal with your fear?

Listen to how you are talking.....its a band....you don't have to like everything.

Just enjoy what you dig and discard what you don't.

Come see the show when it comes to town and come say hello to me at the desk.

You will soon see that life is not really all that bad. ;)



P
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Mutilator »

[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="Mutilator"]Projecting past reactions to clean singing on GOE or the past reactions when BATS came out to the reactions to IDI are not comparable with today's open-mindedness of metalheads compared to the old days where even keyboards 'weren't allowed' yet. [/quote]





I disagree with you. If anything, the early 90's had much more tolerance for keys than today.

True...there was no popular version of black metal yet (a genre soaking with keys) but metal was loaded with keys. Trust me-GOE was the HATED song in its day.



I don't understand how it was evident that there would be much more tolerance for keys in metal back then then today: you had Celtic frost, Nocturnus and the Gathering and the rest only used some slight keyboard touches for that eerie atmosphere like on Altars of madness and Testimony of the ancients.



GOE: Not where I'm from; me and everybody I knew back then loved Covenant when it came out completely rightaway.



[quote name="Mutilator"]



I'm not critisizing the odd-death metal influences: A lot of death metal is mixed with other musical styles and have proven that it can work.



It's the execution of it all that makes me fear they've become old and tired...[/quote]







And how will you deal with your fear?

Listen to how you are talking.....its a band....you don't have to like everything.

Just enjoy what you dig and discard what you don't.

Come see the show when it comes to town and come say hello to me at the desk.

You will soon see that life is not really all that bad. ;)



P[/quote]



I hope that my fear is unjust and that they return with their J album being inspired again and doing what they have done best, instead of copying what others have already done better.



Btw I came to Tilburg, I talked to you ;) It was all great but this band is not just a band for me: In 2004 in Utrecht I started a relationship with a sexy leopard elevator I dated at the MA gig (lasted a few years), At the Tilburg gig a few weeks back I started another relationship with a sexy leopard elevator I dated at the MA gig....I'm going to build the St Andrew's cross for her like on the Thy kingdom come artwork...



The BATS and Altars lyrics are engraved in me; when I'm on holiday and we sniff some culture and visit a church, I'll be repeating the blasphemous lyrics during those visits...then it's the liberating ideology behind it...a poetic view on the world instead of self-referential lyrics like on IDI...



So you see...life is fine, but it would've had a lot less color without the inspiring artistry of Morbid Angel.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Verbal »

people dont like heretic because its a shit album



simple as
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Anjel
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Anjel »

It's not shit though? :huh:



It's not shit though. :santa:
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Verbal »

Correct.
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Re: Why don't people like Heretic?

Post by Punchiest »

[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album



simple as[/quote]





I bet your records are awesome!

ALL OF THEM!
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