Why don't people like Heretic?

general lee · Post by **general lee** » 17 May 2011, 23:54

What bugs me about Heretic is the production and the shitty filler "instrumentals". It makes for a very disjointed listen. Some brilliant songs on it but in fairness stuff like "Drum Check" is b-side material for an EP or single. Has no place on a full length album. Death metal is an aural force of nature that destroys everything in it's path examples being "Altars" "AoD" and "Covenant". A little off topic but Deicide's "Legion" is the blueprint for a death metal album for me personally. Perfection.

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 18 May 2011, 00:01

[quote name="general lee"]What bugs me about Heretic is the production and the shitty filler "instrumentals". It makes for a very disjointed listen. Some brilliant songs on it but in fairness stuff like "Drum Check" is b-side material for an EP or single. Has no place on a full length album. Death metal is an aural force of nature that destroys everything in it's path examples being "Altars" "AoD" and "Covenant". A little off topic but Deicide's "Legion" is the blueprint for a death metal album for me personally. Perfection.[/quote]

This is what my point was, It is good at places but the album as a whole is not very good, heretic is not a bad album but not up to the mark of MORBID ANGEL. Thats why it becomes an album i listen occasionally.

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 18 May 2011, 00:56

I read an interview with Trey yesterday where he talked about how he added all of those extra tracks just to be silly.

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 18 May 2011, 01:06

[quote name="general lee"]What bugs me about Heretic is the production and the shitty filler "instrumentals". It makes for a very disjointed listen. Some brilliant songs on it but in fairness stuff like "Drum Check" is b-side material for an EP or single. Has no place on a full length album. Death metal is an aural force of nature that destroys everything in it's path examples being "Altars" "AoD" and "Covenant". A little off topic but Deicide's "Legion" is the blueprint for a death metal album for me personally. Perfection.[/quote]

Yeah i agree that Drum Check was TOTALLY out of place.

happiness and harmony · Post by **happiness and harmony** » 18 May 2011, 01:22

[quote name="FUKKET"]The songs are great - it's just the production for me (mainly the guitar tone and the lack of bass)[/quote]

lot of truth going on up in this thread

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 02:10

The reason why most people dislike Heretic is the extremely dry production. What can be a problem with dry productions is the loss of dynamics. The sound will have a high level of detail, but it's not very warm or "ear friendly". I have no problem with it though. I think it brought out a lot of interesting things as far as Trey's playing goes.

We currently have a big discussion going on here in Denmark because of a new studio that was built for the radio symphony. The musicians love it. But the listeners and high fidelity freaks hate it because of... You've guessed it! - the DRY sound.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 18 May 2011, 02:13

How did you interview with Evil D go?

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 18 May 2011, 02:15

[quote name="themicrulah"]I read an interview with Trey yesterday where he talked about how he added all of those extra tracks just to be silly.

[/quote]

Yes and he has stated too the album is mixed/produced the way it was in keeping with the theme of a "heretic" so that makes sense. Still be nice to have it remastered (is that the correct term) to bring the bass out a little more. Tucker had mentioned before as well that in the studio the bass was fucking kicking but when the final product came out he was like, WTF

[quote name="general lee"] A little off topic but Deicide's "Legion" is the blueprint for a death metal album for me personally. Perfection.[/quote]

There they are again

:die:

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 18 May 2011, 02:20

then it should be remixed, then remastered.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 18 May 2011, 02:22

And reproduced.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 02:22

[quote name="Verbal"]How did you interview with Evil D go?[/quote]

It went very good thank you. The editor was extremely pleased and asked me to write for them in the future.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 18 May 2011, 02:23

[quote name="WhereTheSlimeLives"]
[quote name="Verbal"]How did you interview with Evil D go?[/quote]

It went very good thank you. The editor was extremely pleased and asked me to write for them in the future.[/quote]

Did you record it and post it here?

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 02:32

No. But I might post a raw transcription once the mag has been out for a while.

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 18 May 2011, 03:51

I just hate the baby-blue and cheesy yellow colored cover artwork.

I don't understand people bitching about the extra tracks that add to the variety; if you program your cd to leave out the great Drum check and other funny instrumentals, you're still left with a full lenght Morbid Angel album.

I agree about the production but there are lots of great metalalbums with productions that leave to be desired, and it never made me reluctant to listen through it for the great songs!

As stricken arise is one of my faves of this album, I hope Pete will write more songs in the future where Trey can add his stuff to.

Furthermore with all critics added, I reconsider this album an absolute masterpiece compared to the upcoming album!

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 04:17

If disliking Illud will be a reason for a lot of people to give Heretic another chance, then I think it's great.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 18 May 2011, 04:53

[quote name="Mutilator"]I don't understand people bitching about the extra tracks that add to the variety; if you program your cd to leave out the great Drum check and other funny instrumentals, you're still left with a full lenght Morbid Angel album.

I agree about the production but there are lots of great metalalbums with productions that leave to be desired, and it never made me reluctant to listen through it for the great songs!

As stricken arise is one of my faves of this album, I hope Pete will write more songs in the future where Trey can add his stuff to.

Furthermore with all critics added, I reconsider this album an absolute masterpiece compared to the upcoming album![/quote]

I agree with this.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 05:06

Listening to Beauty Meets Beast makes me wonder what Heretic would have been like with better vocals.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 18 May 2011, 05:13

[quote name="WhereTheSlimeLives"]Beauty Meets Beast[/quote]

Even just reading that title again there is

. There is no way an album with such a song title on it will be anything other than shit.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 05:21

[quote name="Verbal"]
[quote name="WhereTheSlimeLives"]Beauty Meets Beast[/quote]

Even just reading that title again there is

. There is no way an album with such a song title on it will be anything other than shit.[/quote]

There's no way a Morbid Angel album with such a title will be anything other than utterly fucking awesome haha.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 18 May 2011, 05:22

Hey, yeah!

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 18 May 2011, 05:52

Quick! Be as contrary as possible! Defend the album from any and all negativity! Quiiiiiiick!!!!

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 18 May 2011, 05:57

Morbid Rammstein Rob Zombie Korn Angel

M.Bison · Post by **M.Bison** » 18 May 2011, 05:59

ft. Marilyn Manson

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 18 May 2011, 06:11

LAVAGOD · Post by **LAVAGOD** » 18 May 2011, 08:52

Isn't that inanna in the cover?

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 18 May 2011, 09:01

Goddess of Love, Warfare, and Fertility

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 18 May 2011, 09:07

What's a good book to start with on the ancient Sumerian/Mesopotamian/Babylonian religions?

I have books on the Celts, Norse, and a book of notes on the Greeks that I'm not finished with yet.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 18 May 2011, 09:30

You can also go alternative, so to speak with Sitchin's works. But i think it is best to familiarize yourself with the secular and historical aspescts of the civilization before going to his books, but they are a fascinating read.

Though I guess these both neither fully answer your question if concerning only with the religious aspects of the peoples.

LAVAGOD · Post by **LAVAGOD** » 18 May 2011, 09:38

How about the necronomicon?

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 18 May 2011, 09:40

[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]

You can also go alternative, so to speak with Sitchin's works. But i think it is best to familiarize yourself with the secular and historical aspescts of the civilization before going to his books, but they are a fascinating read.

Though I guess these both neither fully answer your question if concerning only with the religious aspects of the peoples.

[/quote]

I like learning as much about them as I can, so that will do nicely, sir.

I've already ordered the Simon Necronomicon for lulz purposes, and as a backdrop for my Lovecraft readings.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 18 May 2011, 10:25

for recommending Sitchin. There is zero legitimacy to his writings. Anything by Samuel Noah Kramer is a great place to start.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 18 May 2011, 10:26

:page3ofmanydeaths:

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 18 May 2011, 10:33

I generally assume supernatural claims to be bunk as a rule of thumb.

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 18 May 2011, 11:03

Some interesting ideas can be found on this album, technique-wise (recording and playing), and composing-wise as well. I agree that Trey feels lost at times on some songs with this two-songs-at-the-same-time thingy, but none of the songs on this album are shit.

Also, call me stubborn, but I find production on this album to be cool and original, bar drums, which I find too digital and rigid sounding. I agree that it sounds really unpolished (some would call it demo), and that it would greatly benefit from more pronounced bass guitar, but I find it cool nevertheless. Especially the guitars.

Love of Lava · Post by **Love of Lava** » 18 May 2011, 14:56

i think the album is perfect ! the sound is just different in the mix, but fits totally the riffing and atmospher imo..

the rhythm of the guitars + drums are just awesome and this record contains some of treys best soloing imo

the instrumentals are also very nice, abyssous is prbly on of my fav ma instrumetals

the cover artwork colors are maybe a bit loud but i really like it and it doesn't look photoshoppy at all

it represents the style of this record pretty good

the only thing thats bugs me a bit is the bad quality of the inside layout.. the triumvirate is verry blurry..

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 18 May 2011, 16:36

[quote name="Uros"]Some interesting ideas can be found on this album, technique-wise (recording and playing), and composing-wise as well. I agree that Trey feels lost at times on some songs with this two-songs-at-the-same-time thingy, but none of the songs on this album are shit.

Also, call me stubborn, but I find production on this album to be cool and original, bar drums, which I find too digital and rigid sounding. I agree that it sounds really unpolished (some would call it demo), and that it would greatly benefit from more pronounced bass guitar, but I find it cool nevertheless. Especially the guitars.[/quote]

Good post.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 18 May 2011, 22:29

[quote name="pulsar"]

for recommending Sitchin. There is zero legitimacy to his writings. Anything by Samuel Noah Kramer is a great place to start.[/quote]

Hence my caveat: [quote name="Conservative_Heretic"] But i think it is best to familiarize yourself with the secular and historical aspescts of the civilization before going to his books, but they are a fascinating read. [/quote]

Meaning I do not find Sitchin historically accurate or non-religiosity, but still very fascinating reading. I think Sitchin could be better if he allowed peer review but that ain't gonna happen as it would take away from his narrative, still it is interesting reading. Or put another way: I would not use him as a primary source for say a term paper, but I think he can provide a very interesting insight, but understand it is one man's opinion, one man translating the cuneiform tablets, etc...

It is he whom peaked my interests in examining the myriad parallels between the Near Eastern religions and the predominate monotheistic faiths. It seems inevitable that his works will be found when looking at ancient Sumeria, but I do not think it wise to jump into him first. Far better me thinks to look through the eyes of secular history rather than the faithful believer in this particular case. Kramer definitely though

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 19 May 2011, 00:48

Sitchin is a looney hack. There is nothing fascinating about that, unless you approach it as a case of abnormal psychology.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 19 May 2011, 01:04

MorbidAngela · Post by **MorbidAngela** » 24 May 2011, 13:14

I am unable to answer this question. I like Morbid Angel because they have always broken barriers of limitations..they do their own thing...and Illud is a great example. I like Heretic because it has a unique feel to it...don't care about the production or any of that... I'm going to respect the effort that was put into it. It's all about doing what is right for you. If you don't do what's right for you, then you will not be happy in your life.

Gmajnar · Post by **Gmajnar** » 24 May 2011, 19:46

MorbidAngela - I agree with you, you've put it nicely.

With Morbid Angel you can just turn off your mind and go OFF into spheres unknown

Maybe people don't like the lively, bouncy feeling of Heretic songs. Trey and Pete started to co-work on drum/rhythm parts more and more from Formulas on to Gateways and by the time of Heretic their music became really snapy (as Trey also said) - there's a hugh dancing aspect to Morbid Angel as was shown with Enshrined By Grace especially!

I LOVE the Morbid Angel Dance and I'm sure there are many others who also can't resist to twist and bend their bodies (and souls) while listening to anyone of their albums.

MorbidAngela · Post by **MorbidAngela** » 25 May 2011, 00:46

[quote name="Gmajnar"]MorbidAngela - I agree with you, you've put it nicely.

With Morbid Angel you can just turn off your mind and go OFF into spheres unknown

Maybe people don't like the lively, bouncy feeling of Heretic songs. Trey and Pete started to co-work on drum/rhythm parts more and more from Formulas on to Gateways and by the time of Heretic their music became really snapy (as Trey also said) - there's a hugh dancing aspect to Morbid Angel as was shown with Enshrined By Grace especially!

I LOVE the Morbid Angel Dance and I'm sure there are many others who also can't resist to twist and bend their bodies (and souls) while listening to anyone of their albums.

[/quote]

Righteous, man. \M/

I also agree Gmajnar... If you don't want to be Morbid...then, don't be Morbid.

But, seriously people... Look at FFF and Covenant...those are fucking awesome! (Not to mention the rest of 'em.) I think it's great that they are actually trying to create something new and not stay in the rut of what death metal is now. Sure, they created their own kind of music..but, it is their right to keep doing their own thing, whether or not the fans abide.. Did you know that there's fucking christian death metal out there?.... WTF! It's almost incomprehensible & pretty gay to think about throat ripping bree-ing about jesus & christ. It totally cancels itself out... Unlike gay christian death metal, Morbid Angel is and will always be original.

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 25 May 2011, 03:05

A band which played original music for years suddenly made music influenced from an un-original genre is ORIGINAL ?

INSIDIOUSchris · Post by **INSIDIOUSchris** » 25 May 2011, 03:47

I think people don't like Heretic because they are EXPECTING to hear something....which is funny because Morbid Angels albums all sounds different....and the title is "Heretic" crying out loud!!! haha. I think if people looked a little deeper, did some research, understood the process of how and why it was recorded then they might be able to find something special in it....

I thought the album was cool! It's unique and different. It's got its own little niche.

Then after hearing about all the different techniques he used during recording.....friggin awesome. You'll never be able to reproduce that sound, ever, its TOO weird!!! haha

As far as the artwork I thought it was wild as hell! Then I saw some interview with Pete where he was explaining how the artwork is like a reflection in the water.......what a cool idea. Where one side is visual then theres the reflection....reversed distorted side. What i got from that was maybe its about peoples perception and how nothing is truly THERE or real.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 25 May 2011, 03:54

Hey Lady

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 25 May 2011, 04:04

[quote name="MorbidAngela"]
[quote name="Gmajnar"]MorbidAngela - I agree with you, you've put it nicely.

With Morbid Angel you can just turn off your mind and go OFF into spheres unknown

Maybe people don't like the lively, bouncy feeling of Heretic songs. Trey and Pete started to co-work on drum/rhythm parts more and more from Formulas on to Gateways and by the time of Heretic their music became really snapy (as Trey also said) - there's a hugh dancing aspect to Morbid Angel as was shown with Enshrined By Grace especially!

I LOVE the Morbid Angel Dance and I'm sure there are many others who also can't resist to twist and bend their bodies (and souls) while listening to anyone of their albums.

[/quote]

Righteous, man. \M/

I also agree Gmajnar... If you don't want to be Morbid...then, don't be Morbid.

But, seriously people... Look at FFF and Covenant...those are fucking awesome! (Not to mention the rest of 'em.) I think it's great that they are actually trying to create something new and not stay in the rut of what death metal is now. Sure, they created their own kind of music..but, it is their right to keep doing their own thing, whether or not the fans abide.. Did you know that there's fucking christian death metal out there?.... WTF! It's almost incomprehensible & pretty gay to think about throat ripping bree-ing about jesus & christ. It totally cancels itself out... Unlike gay christian death metal, Morbid Angel is and will always be original.

[/quote]

Being "original" is not doing something new. In fact, eventually, nothing will be new. There will only be scales and degrees of quality.

Original should denote being yourself. If it stands out, it stands out.

Morbid Angel were a force to be reckoned with and totally didn't need a gimick or something out of left field to be "good". They were good by virtue of BEING THEMSELVES; being morbid Angel. It's not cool or original to try and redefine what you should be, it's lame. I said it before, all of their previous albums are distinct but contigous. There was a natural evolution and flow with their stamp still on it. Illud jump the shark. Better yet, Illud is the symbol and sign of having jumped the shark: the indicator of something else occuring.

MorbidAngela · Post by **MorbidAngela** » 25 May 2011, 07:27

[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]

Being "original" is not doing something new. In fact, eventually, nothing will be new. There will only be scales and degrees of quality.

Original should denote being yourself. If it stands out, it stands out.

Morbid Angel were a force to be reckoned with and totally didn't need a gimick or something out of left field to be "good". They were good by virtue of BEING THEMSELVES; being morbid Angel. It's not cool or original to try and redefine what you should be, it's lame. I said it before, all of their previous albums are distinct but contigous. There was a natural evolution and flow with their stamp still on it. Illud jump the shark. Better yet, Illud is the symbol and sign of having jumped the shark: the indicator of something else occuring.[/quote]

You do have a point.... but, I can't really find the words to exactly explain what i meant by original or even what i was trying to formulate into words.. & i really don't want to spend a lot of time thinking about it, either... MA does their own thing...I'll leave it at that.

\M/

Gmajnar · Post by **Gmajnar** » 26 May 2011, 15:54

MorbidAngela - you did it again

I totally agree with this sentence - ''but, I can't really find the words to exactly explain what i meant by original or even what i was trying to formulate into words.. & i really don't want to spend a lot of time thinking about it, either... MA does their own thing...I'll leave it at that''

Words cannot even begin to describe the Magick of Morbid Angel music!

The word ORIGINAL comes from the word ORIGO, which means THE SOURCE (the fountain of All That Is) - and in my vision Morbid Angel have been diving in that fountain from 1984 untill today / from Abominations in 1986 to Illud in 2011

MorbidAngela · Post by **MorbidAngela** » 27 May 2011, 00:49

[quote name="Gmajnar"]

Words cannot even begin to describe the Magick of Morbid Angel music![/quote]

nor can a smiley describe what I feel!

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 27 May 2011, 00:51

Isn't quoting yourself in your sig an arrogant thing to do?

Even if it is gibberish.