Why don't people like Heretic?

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 16 May 2011, 19:28

Not good compositions as before. Tucker once said somewhere Trey was not anymore into MORBID ANGEL. Thats one biggest reason for illud to come out like this. None of the interview is with Trey, explaining about Illud . EVIL-D has taken over the band, got his bullshit techno friends to make remixes of MA songs.

LAVAGOD · Post by **LAVAGOD** » 16 May 2011, 19:35

Yeah I never understood that. Personally I love that album. It's very aggressive and raw sounding. Some people said everything from beneath the hollow and on sounds the same and yeah I even said that some of the riffs have very similar shapes but there still basses and they all have these riffs in the middle of the songs that are all just incredible. I'd imagine very different from what was being put out at the time. But songs like stricken arise or god of our own divinity are just incredible. That riff in the middle of god at about 3:10 is beautiful. I always thought this album was great. Maybe people dislike it because of the un-usual production. The Lava really flows on that album!!!

Tea · Post by **Tea** » 16 May 2011, 20:00

I think it's a great album, "Place of Many Deaths" imo is one of MA's most insane instrumentals. But I understand why people don't like it, the riffs are a bit samey and the production is craaaaaaaaaap. I think you really have to be a devoted MA fan to enjoy Heretic. I know I didn't enjoy Heretic until years after I got into them.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 16 May 2011, 20:03

[quote name="lavaGhoul"]Not good compositions as before. Tucker once said somewhere Trey was not anymore into MORBID ANGEL. [/quote]

Steve Tucker is a very bad reference to cite since he himself is involved in a non-death metal project I believe.

Victor Frankenstein · Post by **Victor Frankenstein** » 16 May 2011, 20:04

There's alot of unfinished business on this album. For example, solos and musical themes tend to end in the middle of the phrase. Those parts need more polishing. I would also remove or concatenate those various instrumentals into just a few. On the other hand, production is perfect for this kind of music. Dark, sinister, heavy and gloomy, but very expressive and listenable. That's the reason I like it.

Desoppus · Post by **Desoppus** » 16 May 2011, 20:09

I got Heretic pic LP today

...and don´t know why people dislike this album

Uni777 · Post by **Uni777** » 16 May 2011, 20:16

[quote name="lavaGhoul"]Not good compositions as before. Tucker once said somewhere Trey was not anymore into MORBID ANGEL. Thats one biggest reason for illud to come out like this. None of the interview is with Trey, explaining about Illud . EVIL-D has taken over the band, got his bullshit techno friends to make remixes of MA songs.

[/quote]

Dude get your facts right... Trey is doing interviews. He just did one with a guitar mag as was posted by Void in another thread.

If you read the interviews out there Trey came in with the techno ideas not David and they went to work with that. So he is just as into that stuff as David. So imo that "taking over" is a really stupid remark. Esp when Trey has a youtube channel for his techno.

The remix remard is a bit odd too as the remix is not a part of the album.

And on top of that Laibach is also an industrial type of band wo did remixes of their tracks as far back as '93 because Trey was a fan.

I'm sure Illud is big disapointment for you but venting it with thread-hijacks in threads which have nothing to do with it does not make any sense.

On topic: I think most of not liking H has to do with the fact that the production sounds like a demo. And Trey lost himself in his version of polyrhytmic experimentation which contained cool ideas but unfocused arrangements.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 16 May 2011, 20:18

[quote name="Desoppus"]I got Heretic pic LP today

...and don´t know why people dislike this album[/quote]

I disagree with fools who dislike that album.

happiness and harmony · Post by **happiness and harmony** » 16 May 2011, 20:33

cause it sounds kind of tired. doesn't exude the extreme MA balls-outness of pretty much all the other albums

Mesarthim · Post by **Mesarthim** » 16 May 2011, 20:53

it's the production. I always liked the songs when played in a live setting but the album itself is almost un-listenable.

Spirits of the Deep Waters · 16 May 2011, 20:56

I like this album alot. The production could be better though.

happiness and harmony · Post by **happiness and harmony** » 16 May 2011, 21:03

the production drags the album down into tiredville

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 16 May 2011, 21:23

[quote name="uni777"]On topic: I think most of not liking H has to do with the fact that the production sounds like a demo. And Trey lost himself in his version of polyrhytmic experimentation which contained cool ideas but unfocused arrangements.[/quote]

This is the same for me. I like Heretic but feel it suffers some production issues and has a particular "dirty" sound to it. Lyrically I felt it was an amazing album and picked up where FFttF left off, in my mind. Would LOVE to have seen this tour though. And to that last point, that is the same sense I walked away with - such crazy guitar playing but almost too much, like getting lost in the forest for the trees. I thinks I must need to jam this again at this time.

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 16 May 2011, 22:12

Well, I love the production on the album and the guitar tone in particular.

God of Perverse · Post by **God of Perverse** » 16 May 2011, 22:18

I don't know why, but in my opinion it's a good album, maybe a little 'tired'.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 16 May 2011, 22:22

I reallllly agree with the negative comments about Heretic's production. It could have been a lot better. The songs, though, are awesome and get regular play from me.

beandorkio · Post by **beandorkio** » 16 May 2011, 22:22

Absolutely no power to the production, which is a bit silly as the attraction of metal in general is its power and energy.

Some good songs, but just no power and energy behind it. Sounds like a poor demo.

POWWWWERRRRRRR

vega · Post by **vega** » 16 May 2011, 22:24

[quote name="themicrulah"]Well, I love the production on the album and the guitar tone in particular.

[/quote]

i also feel same mr thermicrulah

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 16 May 2011, 22:26

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 16 May 2011, 22:42

[quote name="uni777"]
[quote name="lavaGhoul"]Not good compositions as before. Tucker once said somewhere Trey was not anymore into MORBID ANGEL. Thats one biggest reason for illud to come out like this. None of the interview is with Trey, explaining about Illud . EVIL-D has taken over the band, got his bullshit techno friends to make remixes of MA songs.

[/quote]

Dude get your facts right... Trey is doing interviews. He just did one with a guitar mag as was posted by Void in another thread.

If you read the interviews out there Trey came in with the techno ideas not David and they went to work with that. So he is just as into that stuff as David. So imo that "taking over" is a really stupid remark. Esp when Trey has a youtube channel for his techno.

The remix remard is a bit odd too as the remix is not a part of the album.

And on top of that Laibach is also an industrial type of band wo did remixes of their tracks as far back as '93 because Trey was a fan.

I'm sure Illud is big disapointment for you but venting it with thread-hijacks in threads which have nothing to do with it does not make any sense.

[/quote]

Ok i am wrong at most of the points. But the point is correct that Trey is not anymore into MORBID ANGEL.

I once asked tucker about this on facebook that what can be the reason for that statement of yours, he said Trey may be wants to play video games

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 16 May 2011, 22:50

I don't like the vocals

The sound is indeed like a bad demo. Too many instrumentals, the placement of the instrumentals take the pace out of the album.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 16 May 2011, 22:51

This may not make for a hill of beans, and my brain is not exactly firing on all cylinders this morning, but wasn't it done as a 3 piece? Trey recording all guitar parts?

Granted I readily admit I do not know the difference between engineering and producing a record, so however many persons involved ultimately may not make for a hill of beans.

shubniggurath · Post by **shubniggurath** » 16 May 2011, 22:56

Guitars that sound like flies buzzing.

Tucker not sounding fruital any more (not shitty...just not fruital).

Honestly my overall impressions are self-indulgence and "maybe you do need a producer." Sometimes an outside opinion is useful if you're too close to the material to be at all objective. I get the impression that everyone involved from the engineer to the band members were basically telling Trey "Whatever you say, boss."

I'm OK with albums that are self-indulgent, but with the way this one sounded...it was too many bad ingredients in the mix. Someone pointed out the pacing...which I think is a huge issue as well.

Bummer because most of the songs are really good. Enjoyed the fuck out of them live. But the Heretic show I saw was the worst attended Morbid Angel show I've ever seen, by far.

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 16 May 2011, 22:57

[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]This may not make for a hill of beans, and my brain is not exactly firing on all cylinders this morning, but wasn't it done as a 3 piece? Trey recording all guitar parts?

Granted I readily admit I do not know the difference between engineering and producing a record, so however many persons involved ultimately may not make for a hill of beans.[/quote]

nor de we need to understand those things, music is about feeling not technicality.

shubniggurath · Post by **shubniggurath** » 16 May 2011, 23:02

[quote name="lavaGhoul"]
[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]This may not make for a hill of beans, and my brain is not exactly firing on all cylinders this morning, but wasn't it done as a 3 piece? Trey recording all guitar parts?

Granted I readily admit I do not know the difference between engineering and producing a record, so however many persons involved ultimately may not make for a hill of beans.[/quote]

nor de we need to understand those things, music is about feeling not technicality.

[/quote]

I agree that you don't have to understand to enjoy music, but I don't think you should dismiss things like musicianship and engineering. To me, Nevermore is basically Heretic songwriting. I bet there are a bunch of people (myself included) that have a hard time listening to Heretic due to the overall sound, but can easily listen to Nevermore. Musically it's really similar but the presentation IMO is much improved on Nevermore. I managed to enjoy Heretic by mentally trying to give the production a pass, but I didn't have to "overcome" anything to like Nevermore. Except for David's vocals at times. And that's mostly down to the production.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 16 May 2011, 23:09

[quote name="lavaGhoul"]
[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]This may not make for a hill of beans, and my brain is not exactly firing on all cylinders this morning, but wasn't it done as a 3 piece? Trey recording all guitar parts?

Granted I readily admit I do not know the difference between engineering and producing a record, so however many persons involved ultimately may not make for a hill of beans.[/quote]

nor de we need to understand those things, music is about feeling not technicality.

[/quote]

Technicality is not completely devoid of import. Do not disregard it.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 16 May 2011, 23:11

[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]This may not make for a hill of beans, and my brain is not exactly firing on all cylinders this morning, but wasn't it done as a 3 piece? Trey recording all guitar parts?

Granted I readily admit I do not know the difference between engineering and producing a record, so however many persons involved ultimately may not make for a hill of beans.[/quote]

You have a hill of beans in your mind in this period. What would a hill of Beans looks like?

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 16 May 2011, 23:13

[quote name="slimegod"]

To me, Nevermore is basically Heretic songwriting. [/quote]

just because the riffs sounds like doomcreeper ?

other than vocals nevermore can be form of heretic.

I like some riffs in the heretic but the point is the songs in whole don't sound good. Cant explain it clearly because its true to explain this, one must know music better.

-M- · Post by **-M-** » 16 May 2011, 23:20

I like Heretic. I like the production.

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 16 May 2011, 23:26

[quote name="pulsar"]
[quote name="Conservative_Heretic"]This may not make for a hill of beans, and my brain is not exactly firing on all cylinders this morning, but wasn't it done as a 3 piece? Trey recording all guitar parts?

Granted I readily admit I do not know the difference between engineering and producing a record, so however many persons involved ultimately may not make for a hill of beans.[/quote]

You have a hill of beans in your mind in this period. What would a hill of Beans looks like?[/quote]

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 16 May 2011, 23:26

You caught that double hill o beans Wookie!

:notenoughcoffee:

happiness and harmony · Post by **happiness and harmony** » 16 May 2011, 23:33

[quote name="slimegod"]Guitars that sound like flies buzzing.[/quote]

SNAP and yet quoted for truth

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 17 May 2011, 00:10

I meant a hill of that Sam chap.

zim · Post by **zim** » 17 May 2011, 00:19

i liked the songs and the production

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 17 May 2011, 02:13

Fuck this thread. Heretic is great! The only minor thing to me is the production because it sounds like it's not finished... to my ears.

Other than that, great songwriting, awesome instrumentals!

Spirits of the Deep Waters · 17 May 2011, 02:21

[quote name="Void"]Fuck this thread. Heretic is great![/quote]

Anjel · Post by **Anjel** » 17 May 2011, 02:28

[quote name="Maze"]
[quote name="Void"]Fuck this thread. Heretic is great![/quote][/quote]

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 17 May 2011, 02:39

Drum Solo · Post by **Drum Solo** » 17 May 2011, 05:20

Trey is doing interviews. He just did one with a guitar mag as was posted by Void in another thread.

Which thread was this?

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 17 May 2011, 05:41

[quote name="Desoppus"]I got Heretic pic LP today

...and don´t know why people dislike this album[/quote]

PICLP?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 17 May 2011, 06:21

Picture LP.

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 17 May 2011, 07:17

GOD OF OUR OWN FUCKING DIVINITY!!!

Trey outdid the fuck out of himself in this fucking album with his fucking riff fucks.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 17 May 2011, 07:40

Are we happy

shubniggurath · Post by **shubniggurath** » 17 May 2011, 07:44

[quote name="themicrulah"]GOD OF OUR OWN FUCKING DIVINITY!!!

Trey outdid the fuck out of himself in this fucking album with his fucking riff fucks.

[/quote]

Yeah, but there's more to a song than the riffs. I agree with you on the riffs, they're really good. But I think the songwriting was below par. Trey was not only a great riff writer, he was a great songwriter. I think the songwriting fell short on this one.

And you guys are the first I've heard say that they actually like the guitar sound and overall production. I don't blame Punchy...I think it came out exactly the way Trey wanted it to. I just find it really grating and obnoxious. But the music is cool.

Conservative_Heretic · Post by **Conservative_Heretic** » 17 May 2011, 07:51

No.

Don't take away his thingy

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 17 May 2011, 07:59

If a riff is good enough it will divert my attention from all other negative aspects of a song.

Meaning, it could have the most banal structure possible and I'll still be interested. I'm more focused on the technicality of the individual riffs and if I like them or not then the technicality of the song structure.

While I love really disjointed stuff like the early At the Gates records, I'm really more riff focused in the way I listen to music.

FUKKET · Post by **FUKKET** » 17 May 2011, 08:12

The songs are great - it's just the production for me (mainly the guitar tone and the lack of bass)

SlowRanco · Post by **SlowRanco** » 17 May 2011, 09:51

I love heretic, but at first it was unbearably bad. It took me some time to understand the production.

FUKKET · Post by **FUKKET** » 17 May 2011, 12:29

[quote name="SlowRanco"]I love heretic, but at first it was unbearably bad. It took me some time to understand the production.[/quote]

this too

I remember the last time i gave it a spin, I was thinking "this production isn't that shit..."...

just needs some getting used to.... but still FFF has Trey's best rhythm git tones of all the MA albums.... broots toots from the poops chutes!