Why don't people like Heretic?

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 09 Jul 2011, 05:20

Don't pay attention to Verbal, he's the retard around here

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 05:26

[quote name="Void"]Don't pay attention to Verbal, he's the retard around here

[/quote]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/rock-f ... ica,17699/

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 09 Jul 2011, 05:27

what!?

bib dylban is beyond a mirage at this point

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 09 Jul 2011, 05:29

Verbal's trolling truly invokes hate since he breaks off seriously meant conversations with his talking out of his ass remarks.

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 09 Jul 2011, 05:38

[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album

simple as[/quote]

Shit album for who? You? Who the fuck are you? A low-quality troll? Fuck you, man.

[quote name="Punchiest"]There is even a "Place of Many" with vocals on it.[/quote]

It would be awesome to hear it, but I don't see it coming :(

Thanks for the info Punchy and welcome to the forum.

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 05:57

[quote name="Mutilator"]
[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="Mutilator"]Projecting past reactions to clean singing on GOE or the past reactions when BATS came out to the reactions to IDI are not comparable with today's open-mindedness of metalheads compared to the old days where even keyboards 'weren't allowed' yet. [/quote]

I disagree with you. If anything, the early 90's had much more tolerance for keys than today.

True...there was no popular version of black metal yet (a genre soaking with keys) but metal was loaded with keys. Trust me-GOE was the HATED song in its day.

I don't understand how it was evident that there would be much more tolerance for keys in metal back then then today: you had Celtic frost, Nocturnus and the Gathering and the rest only used some slight keyboard touches for that eerie atmosphere like on Altars of madness and Testimony of the ancients.

GOE: Not where I'm from; me and everybody I knew back then loved Covenant when it came out completely rightaway.

[quote name="Mutilator"]

I'm not critisizing the odd-death metal influences: A lot of death metal is mixed with other musical styles and have proven that it can work.

It's the execution of it all that makes me fear they've become old and tired...[/quote]

And how will you deal with your fear?

Listen to how you are talking.....its a band....you don't have to like everything.

Just enjoy what you dig and discard what you don't.

Come see the show when it comes to town and come say hello to me at the desk.

You will soon see that life is not really all that bad.

P[/quote]

I hope that my fear is unjust and that they return with their J album being inspired again and doing what they have done best, instead of copying what others have already done better.

Btw I came to Tilburg, I talked to you

It was all great but this band is not just a band for me: In 2004 in Utrecht I started a relationship with a sexy leopard elevator I dated at the MA gig (lasted a few years), At the Tilburg gig a few weeks back I started another relationship with a sexy leopard elevator I dated at the MA gig....I'm going to build the St Andrew's cross for her like on the Thy kingdom come artwork...

The BATS and Altars lyrics are engraved in me; when I'm on holiday and we sniff some culture and visit a church, I'll be repeating the blasphemous lyrics during those visits...then it's the liberating ideology behind it...a poetic view on the world instead of self-referential lyrics like on IDI...

So you see...life is fine, but it would've had a lot less color without the inspiring artistry of Morbid Angel.[/quote]

You know dude...

I can understand some of your frustrations regarding some of the lyrics. They are quite different from the band's original roots.

I cannot speak for David. He is doing a great job of explaining his approach to this record in all of his interviews.

You talked to me in Tilburg? What did we talk about?

You obviously have a spiritual connection with the band on many levels.

I can appreciate that. So you know, all these guys believe in what they do and what they say.

BUT.....

Try to equate making music to making food.

Once you have come up with a great recipe for tomato sauce, the tendency is to make the ultimate pesto, followed by an alfredo, etc etc...

The band has had a 25 yr career. Let them stretch their legs a bit.

There are several songs that have the Morbid feel.

How can anyone not like Vulgore or Baal?

Everyone needs to relax....

P

jawn galliano · Post by **jawn galliano** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:00

very cool stuff, thanks for sharing re: the heretic stuff. would really love to hear what the alt mix sounds like, although i'm honestly not bothered at all by what we wound up with.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:06

[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album

simple as[/quote]

Shit album for who? You? Who the fuck are you? A low-quality troll? Fuck you, man.[/quote]

Fuck you, splendid mate of mine! Gleeso is a high quality troll, medium-high at the least!

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:11

[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album

simple as[/quote]

Shit album for who? You? Who the fuck are you? A low-quality troll? Fuck you, man.

[quote name="Punchiest"]There is even a "Place of Many" with vocals on it.[/quote]

It would be awesome to hear it, but I don't see it coming :(

Thanks for the info Punchy and welcome to the forum.[/quote]

A little known fact about the "Place of Many" track..

The pounding every 2 measures is the "impact tremor" from the 1st Jurassic Park movie.

We also used the sound of the T-rex bending the fence in a loop as well.

There are 12 tracks of rhythm guitars and 8 tracks of leads.

2 of the rthm tracks are "Vacuum Culture" (an SM58 inside a drinking glass sealed with gaff tape against the Marshall cab)

4 are Marshall

4 are Fender

2 are V-AmP2

Leads are the same but no "Vacuum Culture" or V-AMP

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:17

[quote name=";,,;"]
[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album

simple as[/quote]

Shit album for who? You? Who the fuck are you? A low-quality troll? Fuck you, man.[/quote]

Fuck you, splendid mate of mine! Gleeso is a high quality troll, medium-high at the least!

[/quote]

I'm starting to worry about your fixation with me. If you have anything to say, use the PMs. Otherwise, don't bring your useless rants into this interesting thread.

[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album

simple as[/quote]

Shit album for who? You? Who the fuck are you? A low-quality troll? Fuck you, man.

[quote name="Punchiest"]There is even a "Place of Many" with vocals on it.[/quote]

It would be awesome to hear it, but I don't see it coming :(

Thanks for the info Punchy and welcome to the forum.[/quote]

A little known fact about the "Place of Many" track..

The pounding every 2 measures is the "impact tremor" from the 1st Jurassic Park movie.

We also used the sound of the T-rex bending the fence in a loop as well.

There are 12 tracks of rhythm guitars and 8 tracks of leads.

2 of the rthm tracks are "Vacuum Culture" (an SM58 inside a drinking glass sealed with gaff tape against the Marshall cab)

4 are Marshall

4 are Fender

2 are V-AmP2

Leads are the same but no "Vacuum Culture" or V-AMP[/quote]

I love that song, such a powerful atmosphere! Thanks for the valuable info :D

PS: Can you ask for the kickdrum on the J album, please?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:22

[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name=";,,;"]
[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name="Verbal"]people dont like heretic because its a shit album

simple as[/quote]

Shit album for who? You? Who the fuck are you? A low-quality troll? Fuck you, man.[/quote]

Fuck you, splendid mate of mine! Gleeso is a high quality troll, medium-high at the least!

[/quote]

I'm starting to worry about your fixation with me. If you have anything to say, use the PMs. Otherwise, don't bring your useless rants into this interesting thread.[/quote]

Fixation?

Get over yourself, dude. Fucking around like this occurs in all sorts of threads on this board, from the interesting and compelling (such as this) to the most asinine random threads. I'm amazed you couldn't tell this joke from any shred of seriousness. That said, you're the drop dead last person on the board who is going to tell me what to post where.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:23

:page5ofmanydeaths:

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:25

[quote name="Punchiest"]A little known fact about the "Place of Many" track..

The pounding every 2 measures is the "impact tremor" from the 1st Jurassic Park movie.

We also used the sound of the T-rex bending the fence in a loop as well.

There are 12 tracks of rhythm guitars and 8 tracks of leads.

2 of the rthm tracks are "Vacuum Culture" (an SM58 inside a drinking glass sealed with gaff tape against the Marshall cab)

4 are Marshall

4 are Fender

2 are V-AmP2

Leads are the same but no "Vacuum Culture" or V-AMP[/quote]

I have a photo (thanks to Uni) of the glass jar set up.

Also the awesome fan set up.

That's neat about the JP sample in Place of Many Deaths. Any and all anecdotes on my favorite, amazingly textured and atmospheric Morbid Angel instrumental are welcome!

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:37

[quote name=";,,;"] Any and all anecdotes on (...) amazingly textured and atmospheric Morbid Angel instrumental are welcome![/quote]

x2

Punchy: Any info for "Abyssous"? Another epic instrumental song

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:50

Speaking of Abyssous...

When using high reverb with the dry end dropped out entirely, I've often found this extra sound coming through as an artifact, presumably, of the feedbacking. One of the dominant sounds 'behind' the guitar in Abyssous reminds of that.

Phantoon · Post by **Phantoon** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:51

I had been meaning to bring this up actually. You can hear children in Place of many deaths. One of them sounds like he's shouting "Lionel !"

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 09 Jul 2011, 06:59

[quote name="So Callous"]I had been meaning to bring this up actually. You can hear children in Place of many deaths. One of them sounds like he's shouting "Lionel !"

[/quote]

Oh yeah, they sound so despaired... The general atmosphere of chaos and suffering is so deliciously overwhelming.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:01

They sounded like happy children on a playground.

Phantoon · Post by **Phantoon** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:02

While that's true I think I can hear the children laughing and playing at one point in their loop. But it's all distorted and makes you feel uneasy as it's completely surrounded by tension and heavy atmosphere.

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:02

[quote name="So Callous"]I had been meaning to bring this up actually. You can hear children in Place of many deaths. One of them sounds like he's shouting "Lionel !"

[/quote]

It is the bridge conversation on the SDF1 during the 1st episode of Robotech while the Zentradi are attacking.

The speaking is reversed, pitched, and effected beyond belief to sound like "suffering souls."

P

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:06

[quote name=";,,;"]Speaking of Abyssous...

When using high reverb with the dry end dropped out entirely, I've often found this extra sound coming through as an artifact, presumably, of the feedbacking. One of the dominant sounds 'behind' the guitar in Abyssous reminds of that.[/quote]

This was one of those things that Trey just showed up with.

During the production of Heretic, Trey did a tremendous amount of work outside of the studio and brought tracks in.

I was busy working with Tucker on Vox and Bass. Trey would show up every other day with new tracks.

After Tucker wrapped, Trey came in every day do to Marshall and other loud stuff.

P

Phantoon · Post by **Phantoon** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:07

Wow that's crazy. Thanks for the info Punchy !

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:09

Did Pete and Steve had some input on those amazing instrumentals on "Heretic" or it was just Trey playing around?

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:11

[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]Did Pete and Steve had some input on those amazing instrumentals on "Heretic" or it was just all Trey playing around?[/quote]

Pete wrote "Memories" "victorious march" and "drumcheck"

The rest was Trey

Tucker did not do any instrumentals....unless I am remembering it wrong. (it has been 8 years)

P

Phantoon · Post by **Phantoon** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:18

Victorious march is another one of my favourite instrumentals. It's so triumphant sounding and makes me feel like everything will be alright in the end. Like everything was worth it., don't worry about moving onward etc. Man it invokes a lot of feeling to me that song does

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:22

[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]Did Pete and Steve had some input on those amazing instrumentals on "Heretic" or it was just all Trey playing around?[/quote]

Pete wrote "Memories" "victorious march" and "drumcheck"

The rest was Trey

Tucker did not do any instrumentals....unless I am remembering it wrong. (it has been 8 years)

P[/quote]

Thanks for the info, Punchy!

[quote name="So Callous"]Victorious march is another one of my favourite instrumentals. It's so triumphant sounding and makes me feel like everything will be alright in the end. Like everything was worth it., don't worry about moving onward etc. Man it invokes a lot of feeling to me that song does[/quote]

Oh yeah, I feel the same.

shubniggurath · Post by **shubniggurath** » 09 Jul 2011, 10:14

[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="So Callous"]I had been meaning to bring this up actually. You can hear children in Place of many deaths. One of them sounds like he's shouting "Lionel !"

[/quote]

It is the bridge conversation on the SDF1 during the 1st episode of Robotech while the Zentradi are attacking.

The speaking is reversed, pitched, and effected beyond belief to sound like "suffering souls."

P[/quote]

That's fucking killer (seriously).

shubniggurath · Post by **shubniggurath** » 09 Jul 2011, 10:20

[quote name="Punchiest"]

The band has had a 25 yr career. Let them stretch their legs a bit.

There are several songs that have the Morbid feel.

[/quote]

Exactly. And several that do not. Just mentioning this because a lot of folks seemed to get mad at the implication that some of these songs just don't sound like Morbid Angel. I think it's cool that someone "on the inside," as you say, recognizes this. It's not an insult to say that some of the songs don't have that feel; just an observation.

Ironically, "I Am Morbid" is one of those songs that don't have it.

Olden Polynice · Post by **Olden Polynice** » 09 Jul 2011, 11:39

[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="Mutilator"]

I remember when Cov came out and "GOD OF" was the "RADIKULT" of that record.

[/quote][/quote]

But the thing is,God of Emptiness isn't the worst "metal" song ever made.

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 09 Jul 2011, 20:27

[quote name="mabb_"]
[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name="Mutilator"]

I remember when Cov came out and "GOD OF" was the "RADIKULT" of that record.

[/quote][/quote]

But the thing is,God of Emptiness isn't the worst "metal" song ever made.[/quote]

Tell that to the people with patch laden denim jackets in 1993.

P

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 10 Jul 2011, 03:12

God of Emptiness doesn't sound like Marilyn Manson.

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 10 Jul 2011, 03:19

[quote name=";,,;"]God of Emptiness doesn't sound like Marilyn Manson.[/quote]

No ...but people called it a "POWER BALLAD" though.

Trust me...there was a WHOLE bunch of grief on that song and the video when it came out.

That song would start and all the metal head dudes would go to the back and all the girls would come to the front.

Now a days.... if the band does not play that song live...there is hell to pay.

There was just no internet, no MABB forum, no way for a few end users to publicly complain.

(unless your letter got printed in RIP magazine or something)

Nobody can tell me different unless they were there...and I was.

P

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 10 Jul 2011, 03:32

Well, GoE could be this or that in those die hard fans' eyes in those days, but it was still new to people.

And just look at arrangement, not commercial at all. Very classical in its nature.

While today, we have MA trying to appeal to young metal kids IMO.

This 'new' songs we hear today are, it's safe to say, not original at all (don't want to go as far as stating that some of them are pure copies of other artists).

That's the problem - they didn't make something unheard of which just doesn't appeal to listeners' ears because of its aesthetics. The main reason IMO why people are so pissed off is because they have identified artificial reason of MA's change of direction.

It's as clear as day that these two can be compared only on 'die hard metalheads complaining' level. On any other IDI simply fails.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 10 Jul 2011, 04:31

[quote name="Punchiest"]
[quote name=";,,;"]God of Emptiness doesn't sound like Marilyn Manson.[/quote]

No ...but people called it a "POWER BALLAD" though.

Trust me...there was a WHOLE bunch of grief on that song and the video when it came out.

That song would start and all the metal head dudes would go to the back and all the girls would come to the front.

Now a days.... if the band does not play that song live...there is hell to pay.

There was just no internet, no MABB forum, no way for a few end users to publicly complain.

(unless your letter got printed in RIP magazine or something)

Nobody can tell me different unless they were there...and I was.

P[/quote]

Except God of Emptiness doesn't sound like a power ballad. Radikult does sound like a Marilyn Manson song.

Phantoon · Post by **Phantoon** » 10 Jul 2011, 05:56

All David needs to do is learn about 1 - 2 songs from each of the tucker era albums and that would be fantastic

xr2m · Post by **xr2m** » 10 Jul 2011, 09:44

[quote name="Punchiest"]

There was just no internet, no MABB forum, no way for a few end users to publicly complain.

(unless your letter got printed in RIP magazine or something)

Nobody can tell me different unless they were there...and I was.

P[/quote]

Really? I'm old enough to have been into Morbid Angel for a long time before that album came out, and I don't remember anyone in the metal scene where I lived (or the many tape-trading snail mail contacts I had at the time) having any problem with that record at all. If anything, most of us thought it was awesome. I remember thinking how powerful "God of Emptiness" sounded, and that still holds true to this day. Shit, shortly after that album came out, I remember me and some friends learning that song and playing it over and over again in my garage, haha. The only Morbid Angel album that I ever thought was weak in the early days was "Domination." Maybe the reaction was different down in Tampa since it was ground zero for death metal at the time.

The big thing here is that even the experimental tracks on Illud sound like stuff that's been done much more competently a long time ago, and the metal tracks sound totally uninspired. I keep hearing people say things like "at least there's some traditional MA tracks, just listen to those," but those songs are really weak. It's a prime case of forerunners in a scene not ever paying attention to what's going on around them and not realizing that they've been completely outpaced by new talent. Tracks like "Existo" and "Baal" might be the strongest ones on the album, but when held up to previous Morbid Angel works and a lot of what's coming out of the death metal scene as a whole, they sound totally mediocre. Are any of the MA guys even interested in death metal anymore? There's nothing wrong if they're not, but don't throw out some half-assed death metal tracks to appease fans just so they'll buy the record. I'd have more respect if they did a full-blown album of the pseudo-techno stuff they've explored instead of throwing in a few half-baked death metal songs.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's just how I feel. And yeah, I know how Trey or Dave don't care what fans think, blah blah blah. (Note I didn't include Thor or Tim, because they're hired guns)

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 10 Jul 2011, 23:22

This is fun...Heretic involved...but on a side note.

Pete came over last night to do some "live mixes" for his clinics he has coming up.

Since I recorded the Heretic and Terrorizer (Darker days), I offered to give him versions of the songs from the records with out drums so he can play along with them.

It was fun to load 9 year old and a 6 year old (respectively) project files into my (now) modern machines again.

WOW...these records are so much fun to re-manipulate again.

I got a little distracted/excited hearing some of the tracks solo'ed again....it was like going back in time.

If Pete comes to your town on a clinic..go see it...it might be the only opportunity to see these some of these songs performed live.

P

H4T3M4CH1N3 · Post by **H4T3M4CH1N3** » 10 Jul 2011, 23:28

[quote name="Punchiest"]This is fun...Heretic involved...but on a side note.

Pete came over last night to do some "live mixes" for his clinics he has coming up.

Since I recorded the Heretic and Terrorizer (Darker days), I offered to give him versions of the songs from the records with out drums so he can play along with them.

It was fun to load 9 year old and a 6 year old (respectively) project files into my (now) modern machines again.

WOW...these records are so much fun to re-manipulate again.

I got a little distracted/excited hearing some of the tracks solo'ed again....it was like going back in time.

If Pete comes to your town on a clinic..go see it...it might be the only opportunity to see these some of these songs performed live.

P[/quote]

Hmm, interesting.

Any info on dates?

Uni777 · Post by **Uni777** » 10 Jul 2011, 23:47

[quote name="Punchiest"]This is fun...Heretic involved...but on a side note.

Pete came over last night to do some "live mixes" for his clinics he has coming up.

Since I recorded the Heretic and Terrorizer (Darker days), I offered to give him versions of the songs from the records with out drums so he can play along with them.

It was fun to load 9 year old and a 6 year old (respectively) project files into my (now) modern machines again.

WOW...these records are so much fun to re-manipulate again.

I got a little distracted/excited hearing some of the tracks solo'ed again....it was like going back in time.

If Pete comes to your town on a clinic..go see it...it might be the only opportunity to see these some of these songs performed live.

P[/quote]

Punchy,

I know Pete devides his time living in both Barcelona and the US. (He unfortunatly left a week prior to me being there. I brought all my terrorizer stuff to get those signed.) Are those clinics US only occasions?

I know you arranged a lot of stuff conserning his surgery. I read your posts regarding that on the Roddy forum. Kudo's for that BTW. It is very cool the MA camp is taking care of him this way. So glad the out of sight out of mind does not apply.

Thank you for elaborating on the recording processes. I guess eventhough some of H rhythmtracks were experimentally recorded, those sessions were not as weird as Illud. You told me personally a while ago H was tracked with his marshall and his fender.

How was illud tracked guitar wise? And how different (amp wise and reording wise) were the Metal tracks compared to the experimental ones. I've been trying to listen to the separate guitar tracks in those songs . But the individual tracks are kinda hard to make out for me. I am not that fond of those songs but the recording process and layering intrigue me.

Faggy McFag · Post by **Faggy McFag** » 11 Jul 2011, 08:43

i like heretic

happiness and harmony · Post by **happiness and harmony** » 11 Jul 2011, 09:48

i feel like that more or less sums up the thread

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 12 Jul 2011, 08:41

[quote name="Uni"]
[quote name="Punchiest"]This is fun...Heretic involved...but on a side note.

Pete came over last night to do some "live mixes" for his clinics he has coming up.

Since I recorded the Heretic and Terrorizer (Darker days), I offered to give him versions of the songs from the records with out drums so he can play along with them.

It was fun to load 9 year old and a 6 year old (respectively) project files into my (now) modern machines again.

WOW...these records are so much fun to re-manipulate again.

I got a little distracted/excited hearing some of the tracks solo'ed again....it was like going back in time.

If Pete comes to your town on a clinic..go see it...it might be the only opportunity to see these some of these songs performed live.

P[/quote]

Punchy,

I know Pete devides his time living in both Barcelona and the US. (He unfortunatly left a week prior to me being there. I brought all my terrorizer stuff to get those signed.) Are those clinics US only occasions?

I know you arranged a lot of stuff conserning his surgery. I read your posts regarding that on the Roddy forum. Kudo's for that BTW. It is very cool the MA camp is taking care of him this way. So glad the out of sight out of mind does not apply.

Thank you for elaborating on the recording processes. I guess eventhough some of H rhythmtracks were experimentally recorded, those sessions were not as weird as Illud. You told me personally a while ago H was tracked with his marshall and his fender.

How was illud tracked guitar wise? And how different (amp wise and reording wise) were the Metal tracks compared to the experimental ones. I've been trying to listen to the separate guitar tracks in those songs . But the individual tracks are kinda hard to make out for me. I am not that fond of those songs but the recording process and layering intrigue me.[/quote]

I am not sure where the clinics are going to be. I wish I did.

He is currently in the process of booking them.

There is no Fender on the IDI record.

This is all Marshall 900 amps , Rat, with a whole bunch of pedals and stuff from all kinds of manufacturers.

Too many to names and too many settings to describe.

Lots and lots of guitar tracks, different mics.

When we tracked the record, because I knew that Sean was going to mix, I wanted to give him as much signal option as I could.

So...

Every performance of the guitars were captured with 2-SM57 mics (on different speakers to avoid phase issues), 1 - AKG C-414 v2, 1 - Senn 421, and a Radial DI. The DI was only there in case a re-amp was necessary..which there was not according to Sean.

Bass was 1 -- Radial DI, 1-- RE20, 1 -- 421, and 1 SHURE B52

All signals ran through VINTECH X81 preamps (GAIN ONLY--NO EQ)

Since this whole record was in PT, there was no console used...at least here at DOW.

Everything went through the PTHD cards (0- latency) and the Vintechs.

Sean had all kinds of signal to mix with when it came down to it.

P

Syysysyd · Post by **Syysysyd** » 12 Jul 2011, 11:08

[quote name="Faggy McFag"]i like heretic[/quote]

Uni777 · Post by **Uni777** » 12 Jul 2011, 15:09

[quote name="Punchiest"]I am not sure where the clinics are going to be. I wish I did.

He is currently in the process of booking them.

There is no Fender on the IDI record.

This is all Marshall 900 amps , Rat, with a whole bunch of pedals and stuff from all kinds of manufacturers.

Too many to names and too many settings to describe.

Lots and lots of guitar tracks, different mics.

When we tracked the record, because I knew that Sean was going to mix, I wanted to give him as much signal option as I could.

So...

Every performance of the guitars were captured with 2-SM57 mics (on different speakers to avoid phase issues), 1 - AKG C-414 v2, 1 - Senn 421, and a Radial DI. The DI was only there in case a re-amp was necessary..which there was not according to Sean.

Bass was 1 -- Radial DI, 1-- RE20, 1 -- 421, and 1 SHURE B52

All signals ran through VINTECH X81 preamps (GAIN ONLY--NO EQ)

Since this whole record was in PT, there was no console used...at least here at DOW.

Everything went through the PTHD cards (0- latency) and the Vintechs.

Sean had all kinds of signal to mix with when it came down to it.

P[/quote]

Thanks for all the cool info!

What is Trey standpoint of reamping? He is always talking about his rhythm sound as his baby.

Me peronally think it is great as a backup but i've got a sound i really like and how i want my rhythms to sound. I'd hate it when somebody would replace that with something else. Unless it is re amped through my rigg or in case of a mayor disaster.

A lot of the reamped sounds are so much alike. Since a lot of producers have something that works for them they'll use it. A lot of times because of limited time and budget, i understand that fully. Though I miss the identity of the individual bands in that. In the days before reamping there was a lot of different textures in the sounds from band to band. Some shitty but more unique, if you get what i mean.

Are those 900's still the amps he bought on the Blessed tour? The dude's sound is so unique. Are his 5881 amps or do they have the EL38 in them? Because of his use of the RAT which has a agressive midrange i cannot hear that. He speaks about his cabs as regular or standard cabs. Does that mean they are the 300 watts G12T-75 ones. When listening to his traks i get the feeling i am NOT hearing the middy vintage 30's. (I don't like those that much personally i think those are a little too gritty when using a marshall and a RAT which both have a pronounced midrange)

The last couple of days i've been listening to ILI with a different ear so to speak. Whether one likes the songs or not... the different textures in sound are very cool. Fatter sounding parts with a different gain structures and less precense etc. etc. (to this day i hear production easter-eggs pop up in the old recordings as well.)

In "Blades" i get the feeling that Thor tracked the rhythms. There is something in the picking which isn't entirely Trey like.. When listening to the mix of the non-experiments, is Trey in the right speaker (as on the records he's done with Erik)?

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 13 Jul 2011, 04:42

[quote name="Uni"]

A lot of the reamped sounds are so much alike. Since a lot of producers have something that works for them they'll use it. A lot of times because of limited time and budget, i understand that fully. Though I miss the identity of the individual bands in that. In the days before reamping there was a lot of different textures in the sounds from band to band. Some shitty but more unique, if you get what i mean.

[/quote]

I don't exactly get this

There is nothing wrong with reamping per se, especially if DI tracks are tracked with zero latency. IMO, the reamping was really a breakthrough in recording guitars. You still can have all your sounds, it just depends how the amp is tracked. It just gives you a great option of not spending expensive studio time recording bad takes. This way, you can concentrate on getting the wanted sound fully, because you already have perfect takes (hopefully

)

The only downside I can see is if you are tracking DI's through some amp simulator, because real amps respond in a different way, and that can affect performance of a lot of players badly. But if you are playing through your rig/rig that you know will end up on the project (DI boxes have 2 outputs, one that sorts out impedance and the other, which is a bypass) while tracking DI's, that is not an issue. Your only concern is getting your wanted sound on the amp and micing it to capture that very same sound 'on tape' (of course, blending different mics in a creative way can get you where you want too).

I get your point if a band have no idea how they want to sound so the mix engineer may pull a lot of times his preset amp sounds out of his bag so to speak, but it has a great deal more to do with clueless bands (and there are many of them today), not with engineers. In the past, the engineer would still use the sound he knew it's gonna work, he would just spend more time recording bad takes.

But if an artist has firm ideas about sound (for ex. you) the reamping is not standing it his/her way at all. As far as I can see, there are only benefits

[quote name="Punchy"]Every performance of the guitars were captured with 2-SM57 mics (on different speakers to avoid phase issues), 1 - AKG C-414 v2, 1 - Senn 421, and a Radial DI. The DI was only there in case a re-amp was necessary..which there was not according to Sean.

Bass was 1 -- Radial DI, 1-- RE20, 1 -- 421, and 1 SHURE B52[/quote]

Punchy, sicne you have already dived into tech details, can you be bothered to write in what way did you use AKG and 421, I mean their positions from the cabinet (did you use AKG more as an ambient mic etc.) or just for adding a different flavor ( I sense that Shure's were fairly close to the speaker)?

Also, it'd be cool if you could tell the same for the process of recording bass guitar (mic positions etc.), I'd appreciate it!

Thanks anyway!

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 13 Jul 2011, 05:43

[quote name="Uros"]

[quote name="Punchy"]Every performance of the guitars were captured with 2-SM57 mics (on different speakers to avoid phase issues), 1 - AKG C-414 v2, 1 - Senn 421, and a Radial DI. The DI was only there in case a re-amp was necessary..which there was not according to Sean.

Bass was 1 -- Radial DI, 1-- RE20, 1 -- 421, and 1 SHURE B52[/quote]

Punchy, sicne you have already dived into tech details, can you be bothered to write in what way did you use AKG and 421, I mean their positions from the cabinet (did you use AKG more as an ambient mic etc.) or just for adding a different flavor ( I sense that Shure's were fairly close to the speaker)?

Also, it'd be cool if you could tell the same for the process of recording bass guitar (mic positions etc.), I'd appreciate it!

Thanks anyway![/quote]

Yes! Same here!

(I usually have the sm57's close or off-axis, 421 same (mostly on-axis), akg +/- 30 cm's away from the cab, a CAD mic sometimes too, and I once layed a 414 on the ground, under a cab, which strangely worked amazing for that guitar sound and guitarist).

Uni777 · Post by **Uni777** » 13 Jul 2011, 13:05

[quote name="Uros"]re-ampstuff[/quote]

A lot of techs nowadays record only DI with a "monitoring sound" for the player in the recording room, and re-amp it through the amps they are familiair with and they know how to work with. Not necceseraly the artist's amp or sound.

I personally know people who only deliver di tracks to the mixer who then chooses on his own what amp(simulations) he uses. A lot of his production have the same texture in guitarsound. And sound the same from doomband to deathmetal band.

That is what i ment.

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 14 Jul 2011, 05:50

I get what you are saying, but again, that has more to do with artists without clear ideas, not with engineers themselves. If you know what you want sound-wise, any pro engineer will at least try to fulfill your wishes. There are indeed those who try to impose their preset sounds on the client, but in the end it's up to the artist if he will accept that or not.

FWIW I agree with you that a lot of music out there sound same-ish texture-wise these days, but my opinion is that it's because bands in question want it that way ("fuck yeah, I wanna sound of Arch Enemy/Testament/Dimmu borgir/nameanybandhere")

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 15 Jul 2011, 15:00

Absolutely, same with the drum sound.

"Fuck have you heard Tomas Haake? I want to sound like him!" -says the doom/goth drummer dude.

Punchiest · Post by **Punchiest** » 15 Jul 2011, 23:38

Just my 2 cents on a few things.

Re-amping someone's performance because their tone sucks is really a dis-service to the artist.

I personally do not like to reamp anything. I like to record bands/artists.

When I am mixing live or in the studio, I try not to color it too much.

In a live environment, I feel my job is to make the band louder.

In a recording environment, I feel my job is to record the band and their tones.

If I am changing the ingredients of the cake after it has been handed to me, then I am changing the cake.

I think that is the problem with modern day recording.

The first thing out of EVERY PT engineer out there is..."We have to replace those drum and gtr tones." This is where we have gotten this "FALSE STANDARD" of what records are supposed to sound like. Personally, every time I hear the same DKFH or BFD samples and everytime I hear AMPFARM or another version of the Peavey XXX sound, I want to immediately turn of the record.....why???? Because I have already heard it, it sounds like a demonstration project from the software. BBBOOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGGGGGGG.

Don't get me wrong...that stuff does sound great....but is sounds like everyone else.

I want everyone to do the "Punchy-Funchy" challenge.

Go to YouTube, pick your favorite band's video, turn off the audio and pause it.

Go to Itunes or WMP and pick a song from a different band.

Push play on both YOUTUBE and your media player and watch the video with the other band's sound.

NOTICE HOW IT MAGICALLY SYNCS.

WHY??

Because just about everyone's record sounds the same now. And just about everyone's video looks the same.

WE HAVE BECOME HOMOGENIZED.

P