Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

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Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby TamPron » 21 Nov 2017, 14:08

Talk about K's production and sound here. This particular topic seems to be muddling up other threads. I'll start.

Guitars are buried a bit in the mix, but with a bit of EQ tweaking on the headphones, it's not too bad.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby morbid board eli » 21 Nov 2017, 16:51

TamPron wrote:This particular topic seems to be muddling up other threads.


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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 21 Nov 2017, 19:36

Here are my major gripes:

1. Guitar tone: overall they are overcooked with a kind of phase distortion probably from over EQ'ing and consequently sound buried and unclear. There's no life in the mids which is imperative to Trey's sound. On FB I had posted a demonstration of messing with Piles mp3 subtly and was able to open the guitar sound up a bit and put movement back into them.

2. Vocals: you know, some of those reviewers want to talk about "the sound is fine, it sounds like MA" but are failing to recognize that the vocals have a lispy quality as it stands now. Instrument sounds aside, I don't quite get how this technical issue got passed everybody and approved.

3. Guitar level: I am listing this separately, but correcting the guitar tone would probably fix the apparent perceived level.

I am keeping the possibility open that the true wave files will sound somewhat differently. For example, MP3 filtering can interfere with high frequencies compromising the vocal integrity, not just in tone but technical correctness! Waiting on pre-ordered CD.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Josh » 21 Nov 2017, 22:06

It leaked? I dont see it anywhere
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 21 Nov 2017, 22:15

no leak. Preemptive opinions based on song Piles
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Josh » 21 Nov 2017, 22:29

Oh ok :santa:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Shredlord » 21 Nov 2017, 22:34

I think some of you shouldn't get your leather assless chaps in a bunch until the actual recording comes out.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 21 Nov 2017, 22:49

Shredlord wrote:I think some of you shouldn't get your leather assless chaps in a bunch until the actual recording comes out.

boring.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 21 Nov 2017, 23:05

I think they tried to hard to make it BrOOtal. It is mad foreskin fungus like hard to make out what the guitars are doing. Which is a shame...
THe lisp thing is not that apperent in all the songs but it is there and once you focus on it you cannot un-hear it. I do think it is the most agressive performance tucker did on a MA release.
Overall i like it though but it was a grower. I think i rate it above H and G. I was never that into G for some reason. And while i like H i always felt it was a little incoherent.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 22 Nov 2017, 03:14

So you've heard the entire record?
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Josh » 22 Nov 2017, 04:23

Wtf
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Verbal » 22 Nov 2017, 05:08

genuinely am surprised at yall being so in to morbid angel
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Josh » 22 Nov 2017, 07:09

Yeah. Considering we are on the Van Halen board and everything. Strange indeed
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Nick » 22 Nov 2017, 07:14

Image
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 22 Nov 2017, 11:42

Nick wrote:Image



Nah,it's not that bad..
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Shredlord » 22 Nov 2017, 23:59

From the Metal Stream review: "The production is quite crisp with each element of the sound appropriately coming to the fore as needed."
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 23 Nov 2017, 00:05

Shredlord wrote:From the Metal Stream review: "The production is quite crisp with each element of the sound appropriately coming to the fore as needed."


I trust my ears more. :santa:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 23 Nov 2017, 00:06

Shredlord wrote:From the Metal Stream review: "The production is quite crisp with each element of the sound appropriately coming to the fore as needed."

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 23 Nov 2017, 00:09

"From the Metal Stream review: "The production is quite crisp with each element of the sound appropriately coming to the fore as needed

I mean, all matters of taste aside, to use a word like "crisp" to describe a mix that can be empirically and analytically verified as anything but (which doesn't confirm it being good or bad mind you) demonstrates that most of these "reviewers" have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to sonics.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Shredlord » 23 Nov 2017, 00:14

So, how many of you naysayers own the actual recording?
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 23 Nov 2017, 00:37

Shredlord wrote:So, how many of you naysayers own the actual recording?


To quote myself:
"I am keeping the possibility open that the true wave files will sound somewhat differently. For example, MP3 filtering can interfere with high frequencies compromising the vocal integrity, not just in tone but technical correctness! Waiting on pre-ordered CD."

Dude I hope this would be the case! So 2 distinct possibitlies that would give us a different sounding higher quality files:

1. Actual Redbook files from the CD that I am patiently waiting for, arriving week of Dec 1.
2.Then there's the added possibility that perhaps a different production level mp3 was used for promo..right, it can happen.

In my professional opinion and heart of hearts, it won't sound that different. The Piles promo was a straight Mp3 render of the final master wave, Trey even uploaded a better one and apart from a slightly, tad better open top end, it was basically the same. Not to mention, we aren't dealing with 8-bit audio with total degraded SRate and poor conversions. So the CD quality wave most likely won't sound different enough to remedy the issues. UNLESS there was a total and complete different production master that we have yet to hear. I'm leaving these possibilities open, and of course welcome them if it is so!!
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 23 Nov 2017, 00:56

Shredlord wrote:So, how many of you naysayers own the actual recording?

As the reviews are coming in more and more it is logical people might have heard it, isn't it? So far i heard it plenty of times to form a good opinion on it. And i will spend a lot of cash on it after dec. 1st. I like it.

The whole album sounds like "Piles". If you read Beany's review, that one is pretty close to the mark in my opinion. The album is aggressive with the drums and vocals in the forefront of the mix. Especially in the fast parts the intricacies of the guitars are hard to make out. I do like the gnarly sound of the bass. Overall i feel it takes some real effort hearing all the details just like on HE's Fury&Flames.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Josh » 23 Nov 2017, 01:18

How the fuck do you have the record?
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 24 Nov 2017, 04:22

jorsh wrote:How the fuck do you have the record?


Probably press stuff like other reviewers have received it.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Phantoon » 24 Nov 2017, 23:34

Uni777 wrote:Overall i feel it takes some real effort hearing all the details just like on HE's Fury&Flames.

Man that kinda sucks and now i think about it, "Piles" does sound like that album. FaF was good but it took a mad foreskin fungus like long time to grow on me initially.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Abzu » 27 Nov 2017, 21:18

Taurean Mixing wrote:UNLESS there was a total and complete different production master that we have yet to hear.

That would be a hell of a way to mess with leakers.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 27 Nov 2017, 21:20

Abzu wrote:
Taurean Mixing wrote:UNLESS there was a total and complete different production master that we have yet to hear.

That would be a hell of a way to mess with leakers.

That would scramble my paradigms :redneck:

Seems unlogical though.. to give reviewers a bad mix to review :krinor:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Abzu » 27 Nov 2017, 21:41

Uni777 wrote:
Abzu wrote:
Taurean Mixing wrote:UNLESS there was a total and complete different production master that we have yet to hear.

That would be a hell of a way to mess with leakers.

That would scramble my paradigms :redneck:

Seems unlogical though.. to give reviewers a bad mix to review :krinor:

Yeah, that's a good point.

With how these songs sound, I'm perfectly willing to forgive the mix, though I wish it were different. I wish there were more gas giant-y lavas and whatnot. All in all, though, I am glad MA is back to form, I love Steve's performance, and we were long overdue for an aggressive riff fest. I can't wait for my vinyl to get here on the 1st. We'll see if it stands the test of time, now.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby shadowalk » 29 Nov 2017, 23:36

So far all of the tracks that I've heard sound like they're in 7-string Bb tuning. Does anyone know if the whole album tuned like that or is it like the old Tucker stuff with a mixture of 6-string E-flat and & 7-string Bb throughout the different songs?
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Lavabug » 30 Nov 2017, 00:35

I listened to 2 tracks on the way to work on my headphones. Really liked the guitar tone and the mix overall, better than the sample from a month ago. Bear in mind, this was the 160k leak, compressed to shit again through my google play stream.

So I have high hopes over how this will sound on physical media.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 02 Dec 2017, 04:33

HAHA! D.E.A.D. has such a fucking crazy riff in the verses. Awesome stuff!
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 02 Dec 2017, 04:48

god fucking dammit Steve Tucker sounds fucking amazing!!! :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 02 Dec 2017, 17:26

Listening now for the second time and sound wise I'm already used to the guitars. Sometimes it's hard to make up what is being played but I'm listening on my studio monitors now on a normal volume and it's alright. The only thing that I find lacking is weight in the snare and toms. Because the kicks are so heavy they unbalance the snare drum and sometimes the toms as well. They sound a bit thin and lack depth. Personally I always love snaredrums with balls. I guess it's also a style thing... especially in the fast doublebass parts and blastbeats the snare just sounds weak even though I know it's not being played weak at all. Scotty is a beast.

Anyways, songwriting-wise I'm still getting into it slowly. Some songs have great moments and great solo's. I really love Steve's performance and the bassguitar sound is neat. But overall I'm not connecting with the material mad foreskin fungus like much yet. I guess that's also a side-effect of streaming the album.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 02 Dec 2017, 18:16

I gotta say one thing. Some of Trey's solos have a super cool gritty texture and I actually like some of the weird solos in the background creating a mad foreskin fungus like cool texture under the riffs. I don't know what effect it is but it's as if the guitar sound is breaking up and crumbling away.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 02 Dec 2017, 23:10

iamgoat wrote:god fucking dammit Steve Tucker sounds fucking amazing!!! :bang: :bang: :bang:

Steve did an amazing job delivering his vocal performance. I like the mix of Gateways articulation but monster-like still like Formulas.

I just popped in the CD track in my comparison session and sad to say it isn't vastly different sound wise, or different enough to mitigate the previously mentioned sonic issues.
And unfortunately that lisp quality still haunts the vocal track.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Josh » 03 Dec 2017, 01:37

I'm used to the production after several listens. Doesn't bother me one bit.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 03 Dec 2017, 01:53

Ya shouldnt have to get "used to" a production though lol
I dont like the hardness and phase distortion, it bothers my ears.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 03 Dec 2017, 02:18

Yeah i feel the same. I like it mad foreskin fungus like much though. As the fanboy that i am i ordered the Digi and the LP version and i will probably get the singles box too.

I wish it was easier to hear all the guitar intricacies. It would be interesting to hear how your remaster would make the guitars more cleary audible.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 03 Dec 2017, 02:23

I know what jorsh means. I'm focussing more on the songwriting and lyrics now. With every record the sound was always something new. Every MA album sounds different but everyone knows it's them. I get that feeling with this record too and I didn't feel that way with Illud. That album doesn't sound like Morbid Angel to me.

Anyways, I've said what I wanted to say about the mix of K and I'm leaving it at that.

Personally, I've kinda outgrown death metal TBH so maybe that's why I don't enjoy this as much as some of you.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 03 Dec 2017, 02:32

Yeah i get that. And as i have been listening to it daily for about a month now i do listen to it as is. Same as with a band like Portal which is also a pretty dense sound to get into.
Though as Trey was a huge inspiration riffing wise some more clarity whould have been cool. Still, i dig this a lot more than G and H.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 03 Dec 2017, 02:44

Uni777 wrote:Yeah i get that. And as i have been listening to it daily for about a month now i do listen to it as is. Same as with a band like Portal which is also a pretty dense sound to get into.
Though as Trey was a huge inspiration riffing wise some more clarity whould have been cool. Still, i dig this a lot more than G and H.


G has a special place in my heart. I love that album so much. F is my all time favorite as everyone knows but that's all so personal.
I like H too but this album sounds more cohesive than H. The sound of K is also better IMO.

Portal is cool but a bit too much of the same. I like dissonant weird stuff like Deathspell Omega and Ulcerate (although I get bored with Ulcerate quicker because of the vocals, the guitarplaying is out of this world though). Challenging music is what I have always loved and in the death and black metal genres there are bands that push that limit of compositions, musicianship and sound (Oranssi Pazuzu). I just don't feel that MA falls into that category for me anymore.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Uni777 » 03 Dec 2017, 03:01

iamgoat wrote: Challenging music is what I have always loved and in the death and black metal genres there are bands that push that limit of compositions, musicianship and sound (Oranssi Pazuzu).

Open another topic and let us know. I'd be mad foreskin fungus like interested in such bands. :santa:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby morbid board eli » 03 Dec 2017, 18:59

i am digging this production, i think the muddy style fits the lava / sludge quite well

i can see where the audiophiles and guitar-playing fellows are coming from, but, since guitars are not my particular jam, i am unbothered by those fellows' complaints :shbp:

on a related note, i have no idea who is playing drums in morbid angel anymore, but he's doing a rock solid job to these ears
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Nick » 04 Dec 2017, 01:09

horse dealies wrote:i have no idea who is playing drums in morbid angel anymore, but he's doing a rock solid job to these ears


phpBB [video]
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 04 Dec 2017, 02:45

one of those recent interviews trey said Fuller is a 1-foot blaster and doesn't do the 2 foot blast, what he called the "duck-walk."
But this video shows 2 foot blast. I don't know, maybe he's playing differently in MA.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby TamPron » 04 Dec 2017, 02:52

Trey talked about this when I hung out with him briefly, he basically made Scott learn to do 1 footers. I'm paraphrasing here but he said something along the lines of " You better play Pete's beats right, or he'll shoot you in the head", in reference to telling Scott he needed to do single foot blasts.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Taurean Mixing » 04 Dec 2017, 03:04

TamPron wrote:Trey talked about this when I hung out with him briefly, he basically made Scott learn to do 1 footers. I'm paraphrasing here but he said something along the lines of " You better play Pete's beats right, or he'll shoot you in the head", in reference to telling Scott he needed to do single foot blasts.

LOL ok cool, thanks :xx:
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 04 Dec 2017, 14:02

My verdict: some great moments, I prefer Steve's songs and I think the songwriting on G (and even H) is much better. Even if you don't like the sound of Gateways, the songs are mad foreskin fungus like well written and the solo's have a lot of depth and emotion. I don't experience all that with K. The only thing I absolutely love is Steve's vocal performance.

For me, it's not an album I'll go back to often.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby Paste Human » 04 Dec 2017, 15:20

iamgoat wrote:My verdict: some great moments, I prefer Steve's songs and I think the songwriting on G (and even H) is much better. Even if you don't like the sound of Gateways, the songs are mad foreskin fungus like well written and the solo's have a lot of depth and emotion. I don't experience all that with K. The only thing I absolutely love is Steve's vocal performance.

For me, it's not an album I'll go back to often.


I don't know which songs are Steve's, but I generally agree with you. The sort of swing vibe some of the riffs have (e.g. the opening riff of the album) is what I appreciate most about the guitar work, and in general I think Steve really outdid himself with the vocals.

It's a solid body of work and I do enjoy it, but in a vacuum nothing about it gets me particularly excited.
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Re: Kingdoms Disdained production thread.

Postby iamgoat » 04 Dec 2017, 17:41

Yes such swingy riffs that Trey writes are mad foreskin fungus like original in death metal. That's true.
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