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My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 02:00
by bob_here
For clarity, I reiterate that there is obviously only so much one can do with a dithered, mastered file. But nevertheless I felt that a demonstration of what can be done is warranted. My approach was to still remain fairly transparent, true to the mix (if that's possible here) but open it up. So here are some things to focus on:
- guitars find their own space: they are sort of "lifted" from the collapsed, concentric feel and pushed outward into their own stereo space, without being artificially widened.
- harsh and what I call "stuck" frequencies are cleaned up to allow clarity and a sense of air. Movement is put back into the guitars as they jut, ebb and flow toward the listener. More "note."
- very carefully, subtly tamed some "point" out of the kick.
- doing this all and hardly affecting balances in a negative or "over-processed" sounding way.
Take note too that my technical loudness is perfectly matched. That means compared to the original they will register with the same loudness values. This is very important for comparisons. Surprisingly, the original CD master files all have overs as wave files. This can create other technical issues when being converted in a CD player for example. Anyway, my re-master all have safety limits, no overs.
I just wanted to get volume and life out of the guitars the most. I wanted to hear the moving and energetic riffing we're used to from previous albums, where we hear intricacies of the riffs rather than just a thick, darkened barrage of sound.
Unfortunately, the baked in lisp of the vocal I can't do anything about. That needs to be addressed in a "back to the mix" scenario. SO yea that ain't happening.
I will create a demonstration video creating loops to really show the difference, in a proper A/B comparison.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ayk442oftxpa ... g.wav?dl=0
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 03:27
by vO)))id
Just listened to the entire "remaster" of yours (Piles of Little Arms) and A/B'ed it with the original.
First of all, thank you for precisely level matching them. This is such a common (stupid) mistake so many people make.
Second, I prefer yours to the original. There is a little bit of a sacrifice in the bassguitar because the middle information is a little less prominent but that's ok. I prefer the guitar tone over the original and it's less of a blown-up sound overall. I guess you've Mid/Side EQ'ed a little to get these results? Any additional compression somewhere or limiting for any possible gain structure added by the EQ?
I got used to the sound of the original guitars, but couldn't get over the energy of the kickdrums. They took way too much of my attention so my attention span over the course of the album declined significantly after the first 3 or 4 songs. I just got bored by it because all my attention was drawn towards the drums, of which I don't even really like the sound.
Good job man! I wish the album sounded like this. I might let you master the next metal record I do.
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 08:08
by Clint Eastwood
OH MY GOD!
Do the entire record paaaaleeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 11:40
by Uni777
This is awesome. Wish i could hear the whole thing this way. Bob, good job man!
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 12:43
by droidspawn
do the album!
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 13:53
by TamPron
jorsh wrote:do the album!
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 20:52
by bob_here
Thanks guys for taking the time to listen, I appreciate the good words
I'll get that demonstration vid up soon.
iamgoat wrote:Just listened to the entire "remaster" of yours (Piles of Little Arms) and A/B'ed it with the original.
First of all, thank you for precisely level matching them. This is such a common (stupid) mistake so many people make.
Second, I prefer yours to the original. There is a little bit of a sacrifice in the bassguitar because the middle information is a little less prominent but that's ok. I prefer the guitar tone over the original and it's less of a blown-up sound overall. I guess you've Mid/Side EQ'ed a little to get these results? Any additional compression somewhere or limiting for any possible gain structure added by the EQ?
I got used to the sound of the original guitars, but couldn't get over the energy of the kickdrums. They took way too much of my attention so my attention span over the course of the album declined significantly after the first 3 or 4 songs. I just got bored by it because all my attention was drawn towards the drums, of which I don't even really like the sound.
Good job man! I wish the album sounded like this. I might let you master the next metal record I do.
Good assessment man. The bass guitar thing, yea in balancing other elements up there is some perceptual loss but definitely only perceptually. And I agree with you, doesn't matter for a greater good overall sound. The more I listen to these re-masters the more that classic feeling comes back to me. That special epic journey with MA albums. For me, trey's album guitar sound is what stood out right away when I first heard it in 93. And I thought, ok so metal guitar doesn't have to be abrasive and "cold" to be heavy.
But yea I did use M/S processing but no compression, well not in the traditional sense. Something I devised along the way, for a while now, using harmonic saturation at several points and redistributing tonal character allowing for "more space" without actually dynamic processing. For mastering, especially because these days mixers tend to use quite a bit of compression already, I discovered that applying this ITB technique gave me better results than crushing stuff even more, even with analog gear (which is no magical pixey dust). And yea level matching I am obsessed with, so I feel you on that being a common mistake. Changes everything. Hey whenever you want to work together, let's do it!
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 21:24
by vO)))id
Great! I agree with the guitar sound. It's a bit more gnarly and has some more attitude. Much more character.
Dude I totally love the Ozone multiband saturator. I would love that thing to be a stand-alone plugin. I've got some compression, saturation, eq, m/s eq and limiting (just to keep things under -0.2) on my mixbus. The only thing I want an ME to do with my mixes is maybe eq it very subtly but it should be very close to my mix because that's the whole point. I always want to tie the ME's hands.
Subtle EQ I do with the UBK Kush Clariphonic. It's a parallel high shelve EQ and can open up a mix very smoothly without sounding anywhere near processed because it's parallel in nature.
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 06 Dec 2017, 21:57
by bob_here
iamgoat wrote:Great! I agree with the guitar sound. It's a bit more gnarly and has some more attitude. Much more character.
Dude I totally love the Ozone multiband saturator. I would love that thing to be a stand-alone plugin. I've got some compression, saturation, eq, m/s eq and limiting (just to keep things under -0.2) on my mixbus. The only thing I want an ME to do with my mixes is maybe eq it very subtly but it should be very close to my mix because that's the whole point. I always want to tie the ME's hands.
Subtle EQ I do with the UBK Kush Clariphonic. It's a parallel high shelve EQ and can open up a mix very smoothly without sounding anywhere near processed because it's parallel in nature.
I firmly believe in getting it all right at the mix (well, at the source first and foremost!) so a transparent touch from the ME is the way to go. Having said that, if a band request I go heavy handed because their mix is sub-par then I will do that too. So ultimately, following direction is a critical skill for an ME along with listening skills. I'm with you on tying hands in that regard. The kush is a
very nice EQ
. That parallel EQ'ing has a lot to do with what I like in getting "there" transparently. IF they made that MB saturator a separated deal, I'd totally go for it.
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 05:19
by Abzu
Bob, you're the fucking man. Seriously.
:::;;
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 16 Dec 2017, 22:26
by zim
very cool bob, appreciate the time you've put into your work and these discussions. your dedication is inspiring
Re: My Piles "remaster" snippet
Posted: 18 Dec 2017, 22:37
by bob_here
cheers dudes
, always try to bring something interesting to the table or food for thought. Thanks for checking it out and listening to it.