Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

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Mr. P
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Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Mr. P » 14 Nov 2010, 01:45

Changing tuning...



took me two hours to fiddle the neck settings and the FR settings. And job not yet done :(
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby captain twat. IV. » 14 Nov 2010, 05:24

Two hours?I would have thrown something but yea my next guitar wont have a whammy bar due to how annoying it can get.
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby captain twat. IV. » 14 Nov 2010, 05:25

I wonder how long it takes guitar techs :huh:
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 14 Nov 2010, 07:25

i do it in between 30 to 45 minutes incl. intonation.

To over simlpify:

When changing thickness of strings:

Tighten the springs a little to much (trem pulled back a little). Block the trem in correct (parallel) position. Tune strings (should be a breeze as the trem does not move.) stretch, retune, stretch, retune until it is acceptable. Intonate. Check tuning again. Tighten lock-nut. Check tuning. If the pitch has gone up, loosen pads. Lower retainer bar. Tune, lock the nut. Check tuning again. Unblock the trem. The trem will be pulled backwards a little. Loosen the springs until the trem is parallel again and in proper tuning. Check the tuning with each turn of the screws. When the low and high E are in tune again the trem should be in the perfect position.



If you are just changing the same gauge:

Just block the trem. That way restringing is easy, and you can even take all strings of at once. Clean the board, restring, unblock and your good to go.





Installing a (Hipshot)tremsetter is a whole different thing and i still need to learn how to properly do that. I have someone to do that for me.
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Mr. P
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Mr. P » 14 Nov 2010, 14:29

I changed the tune from C# to E. So I had to go through all the little fuckers on FR to get all the keys in proper position. Well, I haven't change tuning on FR in years and here is the feedback. fffuuuuck!
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 14 Nov 2010, 16:04

Yeah thats a bit of work. I guess you did go a few guages thinner, didn't you?

The whole procedure described above does apply.

When adjusting intonation, it really helps having the trem blocked in the proper angle as it won't move when loosening and tightening the saddles.



If in the described procedure the bridge raises itself a litte after deblocking, just increase the tension on the springs until in tune.
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Mr. P » 14 Nov 2010, 16:07

Aye, I quess the old strings were 11-49 or 12-52. I use 10-46 on E so the change is quite big. I will finish the settings later tonight. If I do a dive now second and fifth strings change tune. :)



Fuck I hate FR. :D
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uros » 15 Nov 2010, 04:41

Hey Uni,



mind to explain what's the procedure if I change strings, and put different gauge, but on a fixed bridge guitar?



Until now, all I did when restringing was just intonation thing, but never with different gauge (on this new guitar, on the old one I always left it for a tech to do it). Currently, I have 12-56 + 70 (for the low A string) set, but I wanna switch to 11s + 62 due to the better playing feel. Now, I know there have to be truss rod adjustment involved, and I want to know how to adjust it properly, what to look for, maybe some little tricks, basically the whole process, if you can be bothered.



So, I would appreciate your input on this one :bang:



Cheers
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 15 Nov 2010, 15:27

This is what i'd do...



First put on the strings, stretch, tune and leave it for a while. This way the neck has time to get used to the new tension which is less than before.

Probably the neck needs some relief as the tension is less.

Look over the guitar from the nut down to the body. If the neck is convex it neets some relief to be slightly concave.



A rule of thumb: press the Low E string down at the first fret and simultaniously press down the string where the neck joins the body. Probably around 17th ot 18th fret. Now look at the distance between the string and the 7th or 8th fret. The distance should be around the thickness of a credit card.

A guitar neck should never be 100% straight. This causes to much rattle.

Personally my guitarnecks have a tiny bit more relieve beacuse of the low B. But this is just trial and error to find what you prefer.



Now that you have seen if it is convex or concave remover the trussrod cover. Have the headstok facing you body farthest away.

Whit the string properly tuned adjust the rodd in small steps not more then a quarter turn at a time.

Righty is tighty lefty is loosey :redneck:



In your case with the lower tension you'll probably need to loosen it. Do not turn to much. If you have turned it say, 180 degrees and still feel it is to convex leave the guitar standing for a while so it can get used to the new setting. You might even find you've adjusted it too much after it has some time to set itself. Just repeat the process untill the bow is to your liking.



You are restringing the jackson, right? Check the gooves in the saddle of the Tune-o-matic. There may be some tiny burr's or uneven ness left there by the thicker strings and those are potential breaking points. Take a very fine piece of (car waterproof) sandpaper fold it and gently clean up the grooves.



Another thing is the nut. Have you widened the slots to accomodate the thicker strings?

If those are to wide they might move in the slots to much and cause the guitar to sound out of tune.



I guess you know how to set up the action so good luck.

Let me know if i'm not clear or have left something out.

:santa:



[quote name="Uros"]Hey Uni,



mind to explain what's the procedure if I change strings, and put different gauge, but on a fixed bridge guitar?



Until now, all I did when restringing was just intonation thing, but never with different gauge (on this new guitar, on the old one I always left it for a tech to do it). Currently, I have 12-56 + 70 (for the low A string) set, but I wanna switch to 11s + 62 due to the better playing feel. Now, I know there have to be truss rod adjustment involved, and I want to know how to adjust it properly, what to look for, maybe some little tricks, basically the whole process, if you can be bothered.



So, I would appreciate your input on this one :bang:



Cheers[/quote]
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Mr. P » 15 Nov 2010, 20:37

If you need to change the trussrod, which I think you need to do, then don't ever turned it more than 1/4 at the time without checking how much it affected on the neck. Some move faster than others. Some older luthiers turn the trussrod 1/4 and then leave the guitar alone for 1 - X hours before changing it again.
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 15 Nov 2010, 21:25

[quote name="Pentelesh"]If you need to change the trussrod, which I think you need to do, then don't ever turned it more than 1/4 at the time without checking how much it affected on the neck. Some move faster than others. Some older luthiers turn the trussrod 1/4 and then leave the guitar alone for 1 - X hours before changing it again.[/quote]

I said that also :greenie: :



[quote name="uni777"] adjust the rodd in small steps not more then a quarter turn at a time.

Righty is tighty lefty is loosey :redneck: [/quote]
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Mr. P » 15 Nov 2010, 23:00

[quote name="uni777"]
[quote name="Pentelesh"]If you need to change the trussrod, which I think you need to do, then don't ever turned it more than 1/4 at the time without checking how much it affected on the neck. Some move faster than others. Some older luthiers turn the trussrod 1/4 and then leave the guitar alone for 1 - X hours before changing it again.[/quote]

I said that also :greenie: :



[quote name="uni777"] adjust the rodd in small steps not more then a quarter turn at a time.

Righty is tighty lefty is loosey :redneck: [/quote][/quote]



This just proved that my memory is as long a chickens flight! (Old Finnish phrase)
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 15 Nov 2010, 23:04

[quote name="Pentelesh"]

This just proved that my memory is as long a chickens flight! (Old Finnish phrase)[/quote]

:grin:
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Love of Lava » 16 Nov 2010, 01:20

[quote name="uni777"]i do it in between 30 to 45 minutes incl. intonation.

To over simlpify:

When changing thickness of strings:

Tighten the springs a little to much (trem pulled back a little). Block the trem in correct (parallel) position. Tune strings (should be a breeze as the trem does not move.) stretch, retune, stretch, retune until it is acceptable. Intonate. Check tuning again. Tighten lock-nut. Check tuning. If the pitch has gone up, loosen pads. Lower retainer bar. Tune, lock the nut. Check tuning again. Unblock the trem. The trem will be pulled backwards a little. Loosen the springs until the trem is parallel again and in proper tuning. Check the tuning with each turn of the screws. When the low and high E are in tune again the trem should be in the perfect position.



If you are just changing the same gauge:

Just block the trem. That way restringing is easy, and you can even take all strings of at once. Clean the board, restring, unblock and your good to go.





Installing a (Hipshot)tremsetter is a whole different thing and i still need to learn how to properly do that. I have someone to do that for me.[/quote]



nice description ! yeah tremsetters are a damn thing but these blackboxes from rockinger are quite good.



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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Mr. P » 16 Nov 2010, 01:28

[quote name="uni777"]
[quote name="Pentelesh"]

This just proved that my memory is as long a chickens flight! (Old Finnish phrase)[/quote]

:grin:[/quote]

:fonz:
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 16 Nov 2010, 03:18

I love the tremsetters in my guitars. couldn't live without it them.

I just need to get the hang of the installation. I'm gonna try out that blackbox on my red ironbird.

[quote name="Love of Lava"]nice description ! yeah tremsetters are a damn thing but these blackboxes from rockinger are quite good.



Image[/quote]
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby zim » 16 Nov 2010, 04:25

I have a quick question - I recently saw Cannibal Corpse and I saw the back on one of Pats 6 string V's with a floyd, it only had 3 springs :huh: how does he tune that low and only have 3 springs on his trem?
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 16 Nov 2010, 15:37

Lower tunings = less tension. So a lower tuning with thicker strings feels about the same as thinner strings in regular tuning.

Also there are PowerSprings which have a tighter feel as well as there are short and long springs. Some guitars have a smaller back route some a larger. A shorter spring in a large cavity won't work properly. A short spring stretched out to much doesn't work as wel as a longer spring which is not stretched to the max.



In other words a short power spring stretched out in a large cavity is not as effective as a normal longer spring. As it's rigidness is decreased by overstretching.



Setting the two outer springs in a V shape increases tension too. Although i do not like it that much. I prefer two springs on the bass-side one on the treble side and a tremsetter in the middle.



[quote name="zimberly"]I have a quick question - I recently saw Cannibal Corpse and I saw the back on one of Pats 6 string V's with a floyd, it only had 3 springs :huh: how does he tune that low and only have 3 springs on his trem?[/quote]
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uros » 17 Nov 2010, 12:54

Hey Uni, thanks a lot! :bang:

Yep, I am restringing the COW7. I have widened the slots in the nut, hope there will be no need for changing it. You were very clear with all, I am just unsure what does "Have the headstok facing you body farthest away" mean?



And just to make it clear - so, first I put new strings, stretch, tune, and let them seat for a while, adjust truss rod to be slightly concave. And THEN I set up the action, and after setting up the action I finally set up intonation (have all strings in both, open and 12th position give the same pitch etc.) - so, is that the right order of doing things or not?



Cheers
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 17 Nov 2010, 13:15

[quote name="Uros"]And just to make it clear - so, first I put new strings, stretch, tune, and let them seat for a while, adjust truss rod to be slightly concave. And THEN I set up the action, and after setting up the action I finally set up intonation (have all strings in both, open and 12th position give the same pitch etc.) - so, is that the right order of doing things or not?

[/quote]



Yes you've got it.



[quote name="Uros"] what does "Have the headstok facing you body farthest away" mean?[/quote]



When working on the truss-rod have the headstock pointing in the direction of your body. So you can look from over the nut, across the board to the to bridge.

I say this so the "righty = tighty, lefty is loosey" applies.



So:



:ba: _o_o_o_--------------------------IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII



Uros, Headstock, neck.................Guitarbody......................... :redneck:
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Hugo. » 18 Nov 2010, 01:41

Dutch Folks :xx:
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uros » 19 Nov 2010, 08:58

^^damn straight!

[quote name="uni777"]



So:



:ba: _o_o_o_--------------------------IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII



Uros, Headstock, neck.................Guitarbody......................... :redneck:[/quote]

hahaha, that was really graphic :redneck:



Thanks a lot once again :bang:

I am tired of bringing my instrument to a technician for every setup. It's much better this way, especially when I gain experience with time, then I'll be able to set it up 100% to my liking.



Cheers!
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 19 Nov 2010, 14:15

Cool. Keep looking over the neck with each turn and this way you learn step by step how the guitar behaves with each adjustment.



Setting up a guitar like the COW is a piece of cake normally and something you can do youself very easily.



One more thing. If you have the time, try to experiment with adjusting the height of the pickup to the strings. There is a sweetspot in the balance between muddy/not muddy and output. It is worth it to find that.



Good luck and if you wanna know anything else lemme know.
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uros » 19 Nov 2010, 23:43

Yeah, I do that pickup height adjustment from time to time if there is a need, no probs there.

Will ask you again if I have any doubts, thanks :bang:
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Abzu » 14 May 2015, 05:40

:bump:
ANGEL OF DESEASE wrote:the path of whoring is something wicked and grim, and very philosophical.


;,,;
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 15 May 2015, 14:06

Now this is a blast from the past... :redneck:
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Abzu » 15 May 2015, 17:40

:fonz:
ANGEL OF DESEASE wrote:the path of whoring is something wicked and grim, and very philosophical.


;,,;
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby shadowalk » 15 May 2015, 18:40

Trying to decide to get a guitar with a floyd or not is like trying to decide if you want to have a child or not. I'm sure it's wonderful to have a kid but you got to ask yourself if you're really willing to carry the burden of that responsibility. :gaylol:
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 15 May 2015, 21:01

I'l take a hundred floyds over kids tbh...
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby shadowalk » 16 May 2015, 00:32

Now that you put it that way, pulling hairs while frustrated over a Floyd setup would be much more preferable than 18-20 years worth of tuition fees.
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Abzu » 16 May 2015, 05:39

Honestly, my Edge III (Ibanez FR clone) has been great.
 
 
 
I just switched up to 60-12 (from 56, still c standard) the other day and reset everything (which is why I bumped this thread). IMO set up time is worth it.
ANGEL OF DESEASE wrote:the path of whoring is something wicked and grim, and very philosophical.


;,,;
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Abzu » 16 May 2015, 05:43

My son's 3/4 size Squire needs a truss rod adjustment. I've never done one before. I was going to take it to the local shop (hard-on bearer charges like $5 or something) but it'd be cool to know how to do that myself.
ANGEL OF DESEASE wrote:the path of whoring is something wicked and grim, and very philosophical.


;,,;
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Abzu » 16 May 2015, 12:27

Holy shit that was simple.
ANGEL OF DESEASE wrote:the path of whoring is something wicked and grim, and very philosophical.


;,,;
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Uni777 » 16 May 2015, 14:29

It is really. Just take your time and look and feel. Use your eyes to see how the neck reacts. Keep playing to hear and feel rattle and how comfortable you are with the action in relation to the neck relief. To me the standard heights given in manuals are just guides. I feel it rather than measure if the action is right. But mine might be too high for someone else.
 
It gets difficult when a neck reacts like this: ~
 
With all that said: A good tech sees and feels things on a instrument you would not even think about. Some problems which seem to occur at the bridge might find their origin at the nut or vice versa. When in doubt. go to a hard-on bearer with a good resume.. it is worth it.
“I was a man who thrived on solitude; without it I was like another man without food or water.

Each day without solitude weakened me. I took no pride in my solitude; but I was dependent on it.

The darkness of the room was like sunlight to me.”

 

<p style="text-align:center;">― Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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Re: Once again I remembered why I hate floyd rose

Postby Abzu » 16 May 2015, 20:40

:fonz:
ANGEL OF DESEASE wrote:the path of whoring is something wicked and grim, and very philosophical.


;,,;

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