coronavirus in this region
- Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Right, but the way I see it that might even bolster his central point, which is essentially to focus our attention on those who are most vulnerable to death and/or severe complications, which seems to be a pretty well defined group. Freeing up time and resources to be proactive with them makes sense to me. It might be too late to make that big of a pivot - and of course maybe he's wrong - but the reasoning struck me as more sound than anything else I can think of that I've heard thus far.
- jawn galliano
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Re: coronavirus in this region
that yale hard-on bearer's take is insane. the whole point of enacting draconian social restrictions is because you can't protect the vulnerable from a deadly pandemic if you allow everything to carry on normally. it assumes that just because it doesn't kill a lot of people under the age of 60 that the disease is a mild inconvenience at worst. an assumption so obviously stupid and wrong that it doesn't merit even a cursory rebuttal.
not that it wasn't obviously apparent already from decades of elite malfeasance from lanyard-clad assholes with fancy top-flight credentials, but jesus christ ivy league educations are worse than useless, they're actively harmful!
i'm gonna go out on a limb and assume he's a fellow at some free market fundamentalist think-tank, or otherwise has some significant material stake in maintaining the insane neoliberal order that's going to probably wind up killing millions.
not that it wasn't obviously apparent already from decades of elite malfeasance from lanyard-clad assholes with fancy top-flight credentials, but jesus christ ivy league educations are worse than useless, they're actively harmful!
i'm gonna go out on a limb and assume he's a fellow at some free market fundamentalist think-tank, or otherwise has some significant material stake in maintaining the insane neoliberal order that's going to probably wind up killing millions.
- Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
I guess I'm not as educated on this as you are, but what part of referring to South Korea did he get wrong? And note that that is a real example with real data 100% related to this specific issue.
Also keep in mind that I'm in the lowest risk group, and my employment has not been affected. Maybe I have a different point of view because of that.
Edit: in case it wasn't clear, the points made in the article that I was most drawn to involved the prospect of enacting a more nuanced approach to this based on what seem to be relatively robust sets of data. Put another way: South Korea went way overboard with testing, so maybe we can examine what they found and determine that we don't have to use up as many resources on that. On the other hand, maybe not. It might come down to something as simple as population density and/or demographics.
At any rate, working toward finding ways to help those most in need of medical attention (the elderly and those with underlying health issues) while enabling the younger working population to remain productive seems like a much more worthwhile (and possibly even less resource intensive) aim than simply locking everything down. Let me know if I'm missing something here, but urging (or maybe even forcing) those at risk to stay at home seems quite a bit easier and more sensible than expecting practically everyone to do it.
And again, maybe it will make sense for some of the more densely populated areas to resort of that.
Still, I feel for the people who can't work and all the small businesses that will close for good because of this - especially if it turns out to have been largely unnecessary.
Also keep in mind that I'm in the lowest risk group, and my employment has not been affected. Maybe I have a different point of view because of that.
Edit: in case it wasn't clear, the points made in the article that I was most drawn to involved the prospect of enacting a more nuanced approach to this based on what seem to be relatively robust sets of data. Put another way: South Korea went way overboard with testing, so maybe we can examine what they found and determine that we don't have to use up as many resources on that. On the other hand, maybe not. It might come down to something as simple as population density and/or demographics.
At any rate, working toward finding ways to help those most in need of medical attention (the elderly and those with underlying health issues) while enabling the younger working population to remain productive seems like a much more worthwhile (and possibly even less resource intensive) aim than simply locking everything down. Let me know if I'm missing something here, but urging (or maybe even forcing) those at risk to stay at home seems quite a bit easier and more sensible than expecting practically everyone to do it.
And again, maybe it will make sense for some of the more densely populated areas to resort of that.
Still, I feel for the people who can't work and all the small businesses that will close for good because of this - especially if it turns out to have been largely unnecessary.
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Re: coronavirus in this region
i bought slightly more groceries than i normally would again
more metal
- shadowalk
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Re: coronavirus in this region
hey luke...now that everyone's stuck at home doing nothing and with all the lunacy in the world right now
perhaps it's time for hellcunt to make a comeback?
perhaps it's time for hellcunt to make a comeback?
- happiness and harmony
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Re: coronavirus in this region
now tell me how you'll spend your relief moneyHitoshura wrote:all woefully inadequatearborist shrub tarkington wrote:i thought jorsh and stormy would rank the relief plans with me
bizarre times
the fact that ihe UK tory government's relief policies are far, far to the left of what the democratic leadership is offering is a total fucking disgrace. mcconnell is about to give away trillions in unrestricted bailouts to multinationals and megacorps and the dems are going to acquiesce for a few token scraps for workers, the unemployed, the poor and the vulnerable. the total lack of competence and complete failure to even remotely address the scope of this crisis should discredit the party and its leaders for generations to come.
- zim
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Re: coronavirus in this region
fresh jawns
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- vO)))id
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Come grace us with your soothing voice dustyarborist shrub tarkington wrote::hard-on bearer:
https://discord.gg/ztBb6mE
- happiness and harmony
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Re: coronavirus in this region
my voice sounds like a bear librarian falling asleep on a long-distance call
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- Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
I'm going to buy happinessarborist shrub tarkington wrote:now tell me how you'll spend your relief moneyHitoshura wrote:all woefully inadequatearborist shrub tarkington wrote:i thought jorsh and stormy would rank the relief plans with me
bizarre times
the fact that ihe UK tory government's relief policies are far, far to the left of what the democratic leadership is offering is a total fucking disgrace. mcconnell is about to give away trillions in unrestricted bailouts to multinationals and megacorps and the dems are going to acquiesce for a few token scraps for workers, the unemployed, the poor and the vulnerable. the total lack of competence and complete failure to even remotely address the scope of this crisis should discredit the party and its leaders for generations to come.
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: coronavirus in this region
My state might be headed for a shelter in place order tomorrow. Governer has got a press conference at 11am and all the states around us are locking down too.
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Re: coronavirus in this region
i have inside information the government is suppressing cases here and a lockdown will happen in the next few days once the constitutional amendment process does its crap in the parliament
as of this morning, everything is still chill as fuck outside. i went out and bought another 100L of drinking water, some biscuits.
as of this morning, everything is still chill as fuck outside. i went out and bought another 100L of drinking water, some biscuits.
more metal
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: coronavirus in this region
No plans to escape to your homelands?
- jawn galliano
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Re: coronavirus in this region
if i get those sweet sweet 2000 bernie bucks a month i'm paying off all my consumer debt ($15k between car payments and CC bills) and loading up on jawns once sale season hits in a month or two. rick's SS20 tecuatl collection has an absolutely insane number of bangers and i am absolutely trying to buy as many as i can once prices drop.arborist shrub tarkington wrote:now tell me how you'll spend your relief moneyHitoshura wrote:all woefully inadequatearborist shrub tarkington wrote:i thought jorsh and stormy would rank the relief plans with me
bizarre times
the fact that ihe UK tory government's relief policies are far, far to the left of what the democratic leadership is offering is a total fucking disgrace. mcconnell is about to give away trillions in unrestricted bailouts to multinationals and megacorps and the dems are going to acquiesce for a few token scraps for workers, the unemployed, the poor and the vulnerable. the total lack of competence and complete failure to even remotely address the scope of this crisis should discredit the party and its leaders for generations to come.
not banking on any of the aforementioned though, so i'm just gonna carry on normally.
i'm tremendously lucky to not have any interruption in my income or employment thus far. as of this afternoon, my work has now closed all administrative locations indefinitely, all back office staff are now assigned to work remotely. branches are still staffed but only drive-up locations are operational to the public, and only for drive-up and ATM functions. most of their staff are going to assist in support functions i guess. i'm going into the office tomorrow morning to get my remote gear and they've topped me up with 2 weeks of sick pay. our VPN is still fucked so i won't be operational for a while yet but i'm still getting paid.
sincerely hope everyone here is gonna make it out of this intact
- jawn galliano
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Re: coronavirus in this region
i should be clear here that i am a big time dumbass and my objection is mainly on the grounds that this dude's advocacy appears to be primarily economics-based, which i think is absolutely nuts given the gravity of the situation. the motivation seems to be primarily based on maintaining GDP trajectories and keeping as many people working as possible so that financial markets continue to operate normally and generate returns for investors, almost all of whom are already wealthy and will be just fine once the dust settles. these are not the people the world should be calibrating its response around!Paste Human wrote:I guess I'm not as educated on this as you are, but what part of referring to South Korea did he get wrong? And note that that is a real example with real data 100% related to this specific issue.
Also keep in mind that I'm in the lowest risk group, and my employment has not been affected. Maybe I have a different point of view because of that.
Edit: in case it wasn't clear, the points made in the article that I was most drawn to involved the prospect of enacting a more nuanced approach to this based on what seem to be relatively robust sets of data. Put another way: South Korea went way overboard with testing, so maybe we can examine what they found and determine that we don't have to use up as many resources on that. On the other hand, maybe not. It might come down to something as simple as population density and/or demographics.
At any rate, working toward finding ways to help those most in need of medical attention (the elderly and those with underlying health issues) while enabling the younger working population to remain productive seems like a much more worthwhile (and possibly even less resource intensive) aim than simply locking everything down. Let me know if I'm missing something here, but urging (or maybe even forcing) those at risk to stay at home seems quite a bit easier and more sensible than expecting practically everyone to do it.
And again, maybe it will make sense for some of the more densely populated areas to resort of that.
Still, I feel for the people who can't work and all the small businesses that will close for good because of this - especially if it turns out to have been largely unnecessary.
on a slightly more technical level, my main objection is that you can't draw an equivalence between the SK response and what the US should do, because our systems are fundamentally different. everything healthcare in the US is channeled through for-profit businesses (including hospital systems which mostly are nominally non-profit, but involve complex business arrangements with privately-owned practices increasingly held by PE funds, and those non-profit designations rely on a lot of accounting magic; the actual beneficial owners are reaping massive profits despite their organizations' tax status) and relies on their cooperation, and we have a political economy that is resistant to acting in any capacity except to protect corporate incomes and profits. that all dictates how people interact with the healthcare system; people who need to seek treatment won't seek treatment if it's going to put them into debt or if they're (justifiably) worried they're going to be turned away based on ability to pay.
i don't think we have the legal or administrative structures in place to accomplish a more granular policy on who gets to do what like SK can. we have extremely concentrated populations of people who are either physically or economically vulnerable, overlap between the two, and no real way to cope with either scenario in terms of our social safety net's capacity.
IMO the only sensible thing to do in the US is to just call a total moratorium on all personal financial outflows (rents, mortgage payments, utility payments, consumer debt, etc.), provide income for everyone to ensure they can obtain necessary goods, provide businesses with grants or interest-free loans to keep the supply chains that provide those necessary goods intact, and order everyone to stay home save for going out to obtain those necessary goods, for as long as it takes for this to become manageable.
probably none of that made any sense i've been drinking a lot the last week but anyway those are my some of my thoughts and thanks for listening
- vO)))id
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Re: coronavirus in this region
We're still not in lockdown but Belgium is. Can't cross the border now and you risk a 4000 euro fine if you get gas there since its cheaper than here i. NL.
Just keeping my distance as much as possible, walking the doggo as always in the woods here and have been working from home anyway. I'm very happy and lucky that my job is safe. My gf's isn't though... and we do rely on each others income as we still live from paycheck to paycheck.
Just keeping my distance as much as possible, walking the doggo as always in the woods here and have been working from home anyway. I'm very happy and lucky that my job is safe. My gf's isn't though... and we do rely on each others income as we still live from paycheck to paycheck.
- Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
You've brought up quite a bit there, and most of it seems like an argument for another time - one that would almost certainly end in agreeing that we disagree about certain things on a fundamental level. Broad issues like how society is to be arranged. Things that never go over well on a forum.Hitoshura wrote:i should be clear here that i am a big time dumbass and my objection is mainly on the grounds that this dude's advocacy appears to be primarily economics-based, which i think is absolutely nuts given the gravity of the situation. the motivation seems to be primarily based on maintaining GDP trajectories and keeping as many people working as possible so that financial markets continue to operate normally and generate returns for investors, almost all of whom are already wealthy and will be just fine once the dust settles. these are not the people the world should be calibrating its response around!Paste Human wrote:I guess I'm not as educated on this as you are, but what part of referring to South Korea did he get wrong? And note that that is a real example with real data 100% related to this specific issue.
Also keep in mind that I'm in the lowest risk group, and my employment has not been affected. Maybe I have a different point of view because of that.
Edit: in case it wasn't clear, the points made in the article that I was most drawn to involved the prospect of enacting a more nuanced approach to this based on what seem to be relatively robust sets of data. Put another way: South Korea went way overboard with testing, so maybe we can examine what they found and determine that we don't have to use up as many resources on that. On the other hand, maybe not. It might come down to something as simple as population density and/or demographics.
At any rate, working toward finding ways to help those most in need of medical attention (the elderly and those with underlying health issues) while enabling the younger working population to remain productive seems like a much more worthwhile (and possibly even less resource intensive) aim than simply locking everything down. Let me know if I'm missing something here, but urging (or maybe even forcing) those at risk to stay at home seems quite a bit easier and more sensible than expecting practically everyone to do it.
And again, maybe it will make sense for some of the more densely populated areas to resort of that.
Still, I feel for the people who can't work and all the small businesses that will close for good because of this - especially if it turns out to have been largely unnecessary.
on a slightly more technical level, my main objection is that you can't draw an equivalence between the SK response and what the US should do, because our systems are fundamentally different. everything healthcare in the US is channeled through for-profit businesses (including hospital systems which mostly are nominally non-profit, but involve complex business arrangements with privately-owned practices increasingly held by PE funds, and those non-profit designations rely on a lot of accounting pittsburgh showdown; the actual beneficial owners are reaping massive profits despite their organizations' tax status) and relies on their cooperation, and we have a political economy that is resistant to acting in any capacity except to protect corporate incomes and profits. that all dictates how people interact with the healthcare system; people who need to seek treatment won't seek treatment if it's going to put them into debt or if they're (justifiably) worried they're going to be turned away based on ability to pay.
i don't think we have the legal or administrative structures in place to accomplish a more granular policy on who gets to do what like SK can. we have extremely concentrated populations of people who are either physically or economically vulnerable, overlap between the two, and no real way to cope with either scenario in terms of our social safety net's capacity.
IMO the only sensible thing to do in the US is to just call a total moratorium on all personal financial outflows (rents, mortgage payments, utility payments, consumer debt, etc.), provide income for everyone to ensure they can obtain necessary goods, provide businesses with grants or interest-free loans to keep the supply chains that provide those necessary goods intact, and order everyone to stay home save for going out to obtain those necessary goods, for as long as it takes for this to become manageable.
probably none of that made any sense i've been drinking a lot the last week but anyway those are my some of my thoughts and thanks for listening
My point remains that with a few exceptions it appears as though we could get through this without disrupting the lives of millions of working age Americans who are in good health. I guess that article didn't read as an aspie bean counter rant to me, but rather a practical prediction that the economic fallout will probably be much worse for a lot of people than having the sniffles for a few days ever could be.
And I guess if this helps address a lot of everything else you had to say, I would never live in a socialist country unless I couldn't escape or if it was entirely made up of a shared ethnicity (I'm not too interested in that either) but I do believe that the world is going to need a debt jubilee at some point. Mathematically it has to happen. From there I think we'll say goodbye to one country having the reserve currency. I guess it depends on where you live and what assets you have as far as whether that's a good or a bad thing, but it's going to happen.
- jawn galliano
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Re: coronavirus in this region
fair enough. ultimately i think we differ temperamentally. i like to think of myself as a socialist; probably more accurately, a leftist of indeterminate tendency. you strike me as a libertarian. i have nothing but contempt for libertarianism, which has been rife in our elite for decades and as such is at least partially responsible for our current dismal circumstances. to be absolutely clear though, i do not reserve that contempt for most of its practitioners, i think they (and you!) are mostly well-meaning but get the details & ideology horrifically wrong.
the ivy leaguers (and this applies equally to the belanyarded assholes in the liberal & traditionally-conservative spheres as well) are a different story of course
the ivy leaguers (and this applies equally to the belanyarded assholes in the liberal & traditionally-conservative spheres as well) are a different story of course
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Re: coronavirus in this region
I like when paste talks about death metal and fedex
- Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
I agree that I would like to be left alone, sink or swim on my own, etc. I don't know if that makes me a libertarian (or even a librarian) but I don't really care and you probably shouldn't either.Hitoshura wrote:fair enough. ultimately i think we differ temperamentally. i like to think of myself as a socialist; probably more accurately, a leftist of indeterminate tendency. you strike me as a libertarian. i have nothing but contempt for libertarianism, which has been rife in our elite for decades and as such is at least partially responsible for our current dismal circumstances. to be absolutely clear though, i do not reserve that contempt for most of its practitioners, i think they (and you!) are mostly well-meaning but get the details & ideology horrifically wrong.
the ivy leaguers (and this applies equally to the belanyarded assholes in the liberal & traditionally-conservative spheres as well) are a different story of course
The only other thing I have to add is that claiming that our elite are rife with libertarians is something I've never heard before now. Aside from the Koch brothers (who are highly interventionist) I can't even think of who you're referring to. Maybe it was a drunken statement which I could obviously forgive you for since I've made thousands of them, but that made me do a double take.
And to keep jorsh happy I promise to spend a lot of time thinking about death metal while working at FedEx tomorrow.
Praise Allah,
Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
i will see it out here and go back for a couple of months when the flights are feasible and reasonableNick wrote:No plans to escape to your homelands?
more metal
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
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Re: coronavirus in this region
It's always free to swimUser wrote:i will see it out here and go back for a couple of months when the flights are feasible and reasonableNick wrote:No plans to escape to your homelands?
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Re: coronavirus in this region
see you down in Arizona bay
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Re: coronavirus in this region
aaaaaand there it is! midnight tonight, government announced the first cases. but the virus is everywhere by now, for sure. must exercise extreme vigilance
more metal
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Re: coronavirus in this region
so the united states senators of the democratic party have twice in one day managed to block passage of a shitty, corporate, republican bailout bill, ostensibly because it doesn’t do enough for workers
this is a pretty low bar for success but i’ll take it in this period
this is a pretty low bar for success but i’ll take it in this period
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Today at work we all received laminated "right to travel" statements that explain that FedEx is considered a vital business and must remain open. Kind of weird given that I don't think vice squad will be randomly stopping people asking why they're out in public, but whatever. On the other hand we do have a ton of overnight workers so maybe it was meant more for them. At any rate MN will probably do a lock down pretty soon since WI just did.
Oh and jorsh not only did I think about death metal at work today, I actually had a brief conversation about it with someone. Specifically this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJS7yghEKAs&t
You're welcome
Oh and jorsh not only did I think about death metal at work today, I actually had a brief conversation about it with someone. Specifically this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJS7yghEKAs&t
You're welcome
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Re: coronavirus in this region
https://youtu.be/aGPot3rP53o
I was actually watching this earlier
I was actually watching this earlier
- jawn galliano
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Re: coronavirus in this region
the question of elite affinity for libertarianism is one i could expand on but i've been drunk for a week straight & can't currently articulate but it's real and has had a dramatic impact on the course of american society over the last 40 years. but i'm happy to chalk this all up to wet-brained nonsense on my part which is a reasonably fair characterization of my general worldviewPaste Human wrote:I agree that I would like to be left alone, sink or swim on my own, etc. I don't know if that makes me a libertarian (or even a librarian) but I don't really care and you probably shouldn't either.Hitoshura wrote:fair enough. ultimately i think we differ temperamentally. i like to think of myself as a socialist; probably more accurately, a leftist of indeterminate tendency. you strike me as a libertarian. i have nothing but contempt for libertarianism, which has been rife in our elite for decades and as such is at least partially responsible for our current dismal circumstances. to be absolutely clear though, i do not reserve that contempt for most of its practitioners, i think they (and you!) are mostly well-meaning but get the details & ideology horrifically wrong.
the ivy leaguers (and this applies equally to the belanyarded assholes in the liberal & traditionally-conservative spheres as well) are a different story of course
The only other thing I have to add is that claiming that our elite are rife with libertarians is something I've never heard before now. Aside from the Koch brothers (who are highly interventionist) I can't even think of who you're referring to. Maybe it was a drunken statement which I could obviously forgive you for since I've made thousands of them, but that made me do a double take.
And to keep jorsh happy I promise to spend a lot of time thinking about death metal while working at FedEx tomorrow.
Praise Allah,
Paste Human
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Re: coronavirus in this region
So not a shelter in place order but anything the state considers non essential is closed. The problem is they consider just about everything essential so it's a bit fucking pointless.Nick wrote:My state might be headed for a shelter in place order tomorrow. Governer has got a press conference at 11am and all the states around us are locking down too.
My work is closing all locations tomorrow, so I'm at least off tomorrow I guess. Supposed to know more after some of the corporate folks have a conference call.
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Oh yeah that was the thing I forgot to mention. It turns out 80% of the businesses that we deliver to and pick up from have been deemed essential. It's kind of hard not to wonder how much of a negative impact letting those other 20% operate would really make.
Also enjoying the CC doc so far. I'm not a huge fan but nothing beats a good old fashion grass roots metal story. And Stormy don't let oddly reactionary posts keep you from remaining cruise ship drunk during these times. Creating an inhospitable environment for any foreign agent to survive in your body is probably the most responsible thing you can do at this point.
Also enjoying the CC doc so far. I'm not a huge fan but nothing beats a good old fashion grass roots metal story. And Stormy don't let oddly reactionary posts keep you from remaining cruise ship drunk during these times. Creating an inhospitable environment for any foreign agent to survive in your body is probably the most responsible thing you can do at this point.
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Re: coronavirus in this region
atlanta has a shelter in place rule now and athens had one starting last week
it's only a matter of time
it's only a matter of time
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Re: coronavirus in this region
I didn't lose my job Current contract stops in may but I have a new one 'onbepaalde tijd'. Now I can relax a bit and watch chaos unfold
- vO)))id
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Fuck yes
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Off again tomorrow but I have a conference call in the AM that supposedly has some good news for the work place.
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Re: coronavirus in this region
I have a feeling it's going down to a skeleton crew for service (me and the service manager) or we are going to different stores, which I've got some issues with how my commission would work out.
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Re: coronavirus in this region
Well I'm back to work tomorrow, but this shit ain't gonna work at all.
- rhino
- PAWG Hunter
- Posts: 51143
- Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 04:59
Re: coronavirus in this region
Wear latex gloves
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
- Postwhore
- Posts: 58512
- Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 22:32
- Location: the bottle dump
Re: coronavirus in this region
Ain't none to be gotten. So we are open and back to business as usual. They are making the 6 foot rule mandatory, but no one's desk is 6 feet away from the closest person. That'll be interesting game of manuvering tomorrow to say the least.
It will make the area where I work not be a fucking thoroughfare to get out to the lot which will be nice. That's about the only plus side to any of this.
It will make the area where I work not be a fucking thoroughfare to get out to the lot which will be nice. That's about the only plus side to any of this.
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
- Postwhore
- Posts: 58512
- Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 22:32
- Location: the bottle dump
Re: coronavirus in this region
Only thing I've seen along those lines here is that bge (our gas and electric provider) won't be handing out any late fees till May at the moment.
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
- Postwhore
- Posts: 58512
- Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 22:32
- Location: the bottle dump
Re: coronavirus in this region
I don't think they are cutting anyone's services either but I might be wrong on that
- Methuselah Honeysuckle
- Postwhore
- Posts: 58512
- Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 22:32
- Location: the bottle dump
Re: coronavirus in this region
Oh absolutely. I ain't arguing that one none.
- User
- Metal God
- Posts: 15427
- Joined: 14 Aug 2014, 13:18
- Location: Unknown
Re: coronavirus in this region
shit getting real, USA is gonna be the epicentre soon, but may not remain it ... depending on the timing with india
more metal