The Ukraine/Russia ordeal

[Noyka]

lmao wait, are drudkh a bunch of fucking banderites??

there's been some controversy with the band and that but it's never been confirmed.

well, 'ukrainian insurgent army' is the english translation of the UPA, which was OUN-B's paramilitary organization... not exactly what i'd call subtle!

I had no idea drudkh were nazis thank god i stopped listening years back

[jawn galliano]

i checked M-A and yeah, the album is straight up dedicated to stepan bandera. no bueno!

and like, whatever, i'm not going to pretend enjoying their music means you are a bad person or is an endorsement of their politics. it's obscure enough of a subject (at least to most americans) to fly under the english-speaking radar. but you know, i'd say at the very least, probably think twice about giving them money or wearing their shirts or whatever

[Noyka]

I never buy obscure music especually black metal. I like folk influenced stuff and have accidentally listened to nsbm a few times. It definitely doesn’t mean you are bad or believe what they do but i do not feel comfortable supporting or listening to that shit.

[vO)))id]

Who the fuck cares. If you like the music, listen to it without excuses. It doesn't make you a nazi.

[vO)))id]

Could China do the same thing with Taiwan?

[Noyka]

Im suspecting they are waiting to assess our response to ukraine. They know Biden is a joke so its possible.

[Mesarthim]

whatever "joke" Biden's personal character may be, I have 1000% more confidence in this administration to take the correct, calculated actions and do what is necessary even if I don't personally agree with all of them.

I don't want war and I certainly don't want the US to get involved - but sometimes it's a necessity. If we do nothing I wouldn't be shocked if China goes after Taiwan - but so far that seems unlikely.
The real question is what is NATO going to do in response and will the border countries like Finland join them? Regardless I think the US will support NATO even if we don't send direct military support.

[Ninny]

Fuck nazis, booooh!

[jawn galliano]

finland joining nato is every bit as insane as ukraine joining nato. this insistence on the expansion of a military alliance whose mandate ceased to exist more than 30 years ago is pushing the world back toward nuclear brinkmanship. you're talking about heightening tensions between the two largest nuclear weapons stockpiles on the planet. a new cold war increases the chances for extinction-level events of our own making. it is utterly insane.

i also think if more people knew what NATO was responsible for in western europe in the 20th century they'd have a rather different view of things. it played a very heavy hand in domestic politics in the postwar period, steering the bloc toward reaction and anticommunist repression, which systematically marginalized left and antiwar elements.

[vO)))id]

Correct. What about NATO and Serbia/Bosnia? That is still considered controversial and perhaps even an illegal war.

EU even sent EU representatives to Ukraine in 2014, supporting their coupe, trying to get the people to revolt against their democratically chosen president. It was a strategic step to what we see now, where NATO are also trying to slowly move their borders towards Russia. So I understand Putin's view on this as well.

And what about the under the table deals Hunter Biden and his father made with Ukraine? I don't know all those details but none of that has reached mainstream media, thanks to the corrupt and biased media in the Western world.

[User]

Fuck Putin indeed

[Paste Human]

Am I the only one who always had heard and pronounced their capitol city as "Key-ev" as opposed to "Keeve" up until this whole skirmish began?

[jawn galliano]

i am definitely in the key-ev camp

[vO)))id]

Lets not forget that Putin wanted appeasement since the early 2000s, he even came to Berlin and held a speech about how he liked the West. He studied in Dresden, Germany. He wanted to cooperate. He never made a secret out of how he liked the Ukraine and that he would not welcome any takeover of former soviet territory. The US knew who they were dealing with, what happens if they provoke another super power. But of course the USA had to expand NATO, ofc they had to put an aircraft carrier in every little lake around the world. The USA, not Russia, are still the biggest war driver in the world. With their former US foreign politics they even risk a war in Europe. The US have to piss on every tree in the world. Irak, Iran, Afganistan, etc etc

[Olden Polynice]

It's interesting watching the grown adult anti NWO dumbasses pretending they have a clue about history or what they have been influenced by.

And yes, fuck Klaus etc.

The cycle goes on.

This sucks.

[Olden Polynice]

If this dude goes out like Tony Montana it will be crazy.

[Noyka]

Lets not forget that Putin wanted appeasement since the early 2000s, he even came to Berlin and held a speech about how he liked the West. He studied in Dresden, Germany. He wanted to cooperate. He never made a secret out of how he liked the Ukraine and that he would not welcome any takeover of former soviet territory. The US knew who they were dealing with, what happens if they provoke another super power. But of course the USA had to expand NATO, ofc they had to put an aircraft carrier in every little lake around the world. The USA, not Russia, are still the biggest war driver in the world. With their former US foreign politics they even risk a war in Europe. The US have to piss on every tree in the world. Irak, Iran, Afganistan, etc etc

I loathe my country’s proxy wars especially he middle east but Russia too tried in the middle east don’t forget. We do hold a lot of guilt with Ukraine but Russia ultimately broke the treaty and holds majority blame here.

[vO)))id]

Yes, that's also true.

[Ninny]

You can't pick which countries should be under your influence like Putin would like to do. The former Warsaw pact countries which are now NATO or E.U. made that choice themselves, they weren't pressured into joining. NATO saved us and gave us the freedom we now take for granted. Russia might seem livable now but life in the communist bloc sucked hard That would have been for western europe too, the commies were imperialists

[Ninny]

I get 15000 posts just in time for the apocalypse

[Methuselah Honeysuckle]

A+ work

[Mesarthim]

Russia has been cut off from SWIFT and has had many sanctions from around the world applied against them - and now even Switzerland is threatening to freeze all Russian assets.

Let’s play a game - watch who of the political and media personalities complains the most about these actions now that their funding has been fucked with. I guarantee it won’t be shocking.

[Mesarthim]

That’s a given. I’m kind of looking forward to watching them all meltdown.

[Mesarthim]

finland joining nato is every bit as insane as ukraine joining nato.

https://www.politico.eu/article/finland ... ussia/amp/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ences.html

https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/ukr ... ining-nato

Oh boy.

[Noyka]

Time to start realky freaking out

[droidspawn]

FFS

[vO)))id]

This is definitely going to be WW3.
With how the West are escalating everything.... plenty of our opposing politicians are against it but the ones currently in power only want war. The mainstream media here also only shows one side of the story, so the majority of the public is dragged into this war, thinking we are "the good guys".

Nuke everyone and be done with it, or save us all from extinction.

[vO)))id]

Of course, Putin is also pushing much further into Ukraine than maybe expected and he's not someone I would trust. Both sides are at fault here IMO. But the natural escalation of things isn't going to stop, I fear.

[Mesarthim]

I think at this point the west is hoping the Putin problem will be taken care of from within Russia. The Russian people are pissed and the wealthy / powerful Russian are even more pissed. These sanctions aren’t going to get dropped unless Putin is disposed of.

[vO)))id]

I think at this point the west is hoping the Putin problem will be taken care of from within Russia. The Russian people are pissed and the wealthy / powerful Russian are even more pissed. These sanctions aren’t going to get dropped unless Putin is disposed of.

Yes, that has come to my attention today as well. Let's hope so.

[jawn galliano]

yeah i mean the whole point of sanctions is to cause enough mass suffering to destabilize a country's government. but even if you get rid of putin, what russian leader is going to accept ukraine as a full nato member country? removing him changes nothing about the overall geopolitical scenario IMO.

[Mesarthim]

Considering Putin is now trying to keep western companies / investors from leaving... the end result of pulling that card will be that no sane person will want anything to do with Russia ever again even after the dust settles. something will happen soon. Putting aside that the common Russian citizens are outraged, I can't imagine the so called "Russian-Billionairs" and Bratva being too happy with the way things are going.

[Z's bouncy tits]

Abramovich is dumping everything he owns in the ukofa.

[Noyka]

Real question did anyone think russia would actually invade ukraine before it happened? Its easy to speculate when lives arent being lost but its different when war starts

[Noyka]

I have a point to that question

We should take the nuke threats seriously Putin is off his rocker and russia is trying to survive

There is a big economic war its terrifying to think it could spiral further out of control

[zim]

there's no winner with nuclear war, if putin decided to go that route he'd just be making sure that everyone loses together

[Noyka]

If nukes are unleashed pray for immediate death. Im praying cooler heads prevail and we de-escalate fast.

[zim]

might be alright for awhile if you don't live near a major city

[Mesarthim]

I live 10 minutes from downtown Minneapolis. I’m fucked.

[Noyka]

I think i live far enough from san fran i’d unfortunately live to see the aftermath.

[rhino]

Fortunately we can destroy them overseas before landfall

[jawn galliano]

Real question did anyone think russia would actually invade ukraine before it happened? Its easy to speculate when lives arent being lost but its different when war starts

pretty much nobody did. i certainly didn't, none of the analysts i follow called it right, nobody in ukrainian government thought it was going to happen. pretty much the only voices predicting invasion were those in the western propaganda machine, which IMO wasn't so much a product of good intelligence or calling it correctly, but rather part of the larger effort to induce an invasion.

[vO)))id]

The unpredictibility of Putin should not be underestimated. And the EU is currently throwing oil on the fire. We need to start seeing this from Putin's view as well and come to understand it, otherwise it's going to be disaster for everyone. Putin already said "There will be no winners. We will all lose".

I'm trying not to let fear dictate me personally, but I am afraid of where this is headed. Netherlands is sending weapons to Ukraine and our politicians think this is "being neutral". They don't seem to understand that Putin sees this as a direct attack on Russia.
Another thing is that it's extremely difficult to monitor where our weapons will actually end up. They could end up in Russian hands as well. Our politicians in power are dragging my country into a war and will not listen to our own opposition. It's madness. And exactly those people in power, don't have any real war or conflict experience.

Also adding that Europe has no real military means nor enough personell to do anything substantial against the Russian army. So our EU leaders are talking big but will have nothing to back up their words.

[-M-]

Real question did anyone think russia would actually invade ukraine before it happened? Its easy to speculate when lives arent being lost but its different when war starts

pretty much nobody did. i certainly didn't, none of the analysts i follow called it right, nobody in ukrainian government thought it was going to happen. pretty much the only voices predicting invasion were those in the western propaganda machine, which IMO wasn't so much a product of good intelligence or calling it correctly, but rather part of the larger effort to induce an invasion.

Pretty much everyone in Eastern Europe did. We all have experience with Russian foreign policy and Russian imperialism. Why do you think Eastern Europe countries wanted to be in NATO? For us it was only a question of time when Russia would attack. First it was Chechnya, then Georgia, Ukraine in 2014 and Ukraine now. Now Russia is just going forward with restoring Russian Empire/Soviet Union.

There is a lot of refugees from Chechnya and Georgia in Poland. I remember TV and press interviews with these people, how they described Russian bestiality in wars.

People who are older than 40 remember how Second World War was described in school books. We have family members, who remember war. Now it's the same. Putin gives orders to attack to solders, who don't have food. There is no gasoline for tanks. He doesn't care how many of his people will die. Back in IIWW Soviets had send unarmed solders on a front and told them if someone armed drops dead they should take their gun and go forward. Putin doesn't care about his own people lives. He will let them die just to gain his goals.

[vO)))id]

It certainly looks that way now too.

[vO)))id]

US soldiers are flying to Germany as we speak to train with NATO troops. This isn't going to be just a training, I think.

[jawn galliano]

Why do you think Eastern Europe countries wanted to be in NATO?

i can't speak to the initial wave of nato expansion in the wake of the USSR's dissolution, but certainly where ukraine is concerned the answer is 'billions of american dollars propping up a massive pro-west soft power network, which culminated in a successful pro-west regime change operation'. and after our hard-on bearer lost to zelensky (by a massive landslide!), who campaigned on repairing relations with russia, he pretty much immediately backed down and fell in line with the US' plans. which i guess is kind of understandable, because we'd just kill him or throw him out if he tried to exercise any autonomy in that sphere.

this isn't to say that pro-west/pro-nato sentiment is entirely manufactured, i have no doubt that there are people who earnestly believe western integration is a good thing! i just think there was uhh, a lot of external help and encouragement in creating the impression that those sentiments are a lot more widespread than they are in reality.

I'm trying not to let fear dictate me personally, but I am afraid of where this is headed. Netherlands is sending weapons to Ukraine and our politicians think this is "being neutral". They don't seem to understand that Putin sees this as a direct attack on Russia.
Another thing is that it's extremely difficult to monitor where our weapons will actually end up.

right. and whatever happens, this tidal wave of weaponry is now a part of the ukrainian political landscape for the decades ahead. as to the question of where those weapons will ultimately end up, the safest bet is always "with the most violent, reactionary elements of that society". we don't really have to speculate too much on how this all probably plays out, since it's following a familiar playbook. western cold warriors regard afghanistan post-'79 to be a resounding success, but how did it work out for the people of afghanistan?

in 20 years we'll let bloodthirsty DC freaks like michael mcfaul have their brzezinski moment to dismiss the burgeoning fascist terror networks as 'a bunch of stirred-up bigots' of no particular concern, as they all pat themselves on the back for a job well done on permanently destabilizing ukraine.

[Noyka]

I wish my leaders took cues from eastern europeans and were more prepared/wiser

[vO)))id]

This video explains a lot.

[jawn galliano]

i don't know if it's a deliberate part of US strategy for politicians to spout this nonsense to preclude the possibility of ceasefires or if they're just genuinely this stupid and cracked out on their own propaganda

it sure is fucking stupid though