Iran Has No Right to Nuclear Technology

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 30 Sep 2009, 03:12

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 82286.html

agree or disagree?

Haunty · Post by **Haunty** » 30 Sep 2009, 04:53

Well, I understand his point of view, because Islamic fundamentalists worry me as well. The difference is that I think Iran does have a right to peaceful nuclear technology, and the possibility that they may attack someone doesn't change that. As much as we may or may not have reason to believe anything Iran says, it's the actual Iranian citizens we should be concerned with. I don't believe the U.N. (or anyone else, for that matter) has the position to say who deserves what at what time, especially due to something their government says.

If Iran actually intends to misuse their weapons (and I'm not so sure that's the case...there's no way they don't understand what would happen to them), people will die. And that's going to happen. Simple fact of life. The problem with trying to preempt that eventuality is that nobody really has the "right" to do so. Aside from the ethical responsibility to human life, trying to deny a potential boon to a unhappy population just makes it worse. The U.N. already has the status of "big bully" in a lot of countries for doing just this sort of thing. If they want to be "heroes," there have to be "bad guys" as well, which (in terms of international politics), means letting the "bad guys" do bad things once in a while.

:mytwocents:

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 10:43

funny hypocrits those americans(the government) they have loads of nuclear weapons and actually the only country to ever use them and they say other people cant have them and others are danger to the world?

Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tube Man · 30 Sep 2009, 10:49

[youtube]xTO5x0rlJJo[/youtube]

Noyka · Post by **Noyka** » 30 Sep 2009, 11:33

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]funny hypocrits those americans(the government) they have loads of nuclear weapons and actually the only country to ever use them and they say other people cant have them and others are danger to the world?

[/quote]

People like you just don't get it, learn your history then come back to me on the whole "THE US IS THE MOST EVIL NATION EVER" I'm sick of this mentality. Every nation has comitted crimes against humanity 75% of today's nations admit to using torture since 2000 so stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. China anyone? What about the treatment of the Roma? What about the entire continent of Africa? Do you know about the race based warfare going on in that continent? There are gross violations of human rights everywhere.

I'd love to have a nuclear free world but it isn't going to happen any time soon and with nuts like those really in charge of Iraq I don't think that nation needs nuclear weapons.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 12:57

[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]funny hypocrits those americans(the government) they have loads of nuclear weapons and actually the only country to ever use them and they say other people cant have them and others are danger to the world?

[/quote]

People like you just don't get it, learn your history then come back to me on the whole "THE US IS THE MOST EVIL NATION EVER" I'm sick of this mentality. Every nation has comitted crimes against humanity 75% of today's nations admit to using torture since 2000 so stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. China anyone? What about the treatment of the Roma? What about the entire continent of Africa? Do you know about the race based warfare going on in that continent? There are gross violations of human rights everywhere.

I'd love to have a nuclear free world but it isn't going to happen any time soon and with nuts like those really in charge of Iraq I don't think that nation needs nuclear weapons.[/quote]

Learn YOUR history, USA is the biggest evil warmonger there is, its PURE evil, fact. They are hypocrits and lie to their own people and kill innocent people in iraq and now they want iran, you are a RETARD if you defend them. Also why are you bringing up other countries into this? we are talking about usa being hypocrits about NUCLEAR WEAPON, dont start talking about irrelevant stuff.

zim · Post by **zim** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:02

where are you from karma?

Noyka · Post by **Noyka** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:13

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]funny hypocrits those americans(the government) they have loads of nuclear weapons and actually the only country to ever use them and they say other people cant have them and others are danger to the world?

[/quote]

People like you just don't get it, learn your history then come back to me on the whole "THE US IS THE MOST EVIL NATION EVER" I'm sick of this mentality. Every nation has comitted crimes against humanity 75% of today's nations admit to using torture since 2000 so stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. China anyone? What about the treatment of the Roma? What about the entire continent of Africa? Do you know about the race based warfare going on in that continent? There are gross violations of human rights everywhere.

I'd love to have a nuclear free world but it isn't going to happen any time soon and with nuts like those really in charge of Iraq I don't think that nation needs nuclear weapons.[/quote]

Learn YOUR history, USA is the biggest evil warmonger there is, its PURE evil, fact. They are hypocrits and lie to their own people and kill innocent people in iraq and now they want iran, you are a RETARD if you defend them. Also why are you bringing up other countries into this? we are talking about usa being hypocrits about NUCLEAR WEAPON, dont start talking about irrelevant stuff.[/quote]

"stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. "

I'm a retard for not buying into propaganda and thinking with a clear head? I'm sorry but you're official one of the least observant people I've ever spoken to.

Everything I brought up is relevant to my point which obviously flew over your head

You are so naive if you think all the issues in the world are all on the USA's shoulders.

"BEING HYPOCRITES" every nation is a hypocrite. Amm I defending the US no, I'm making a point a point most aren't willing to accept.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:32

[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]funny hypocrits those americans(the government) they have loads of nuclear weapons and actually the only country to ever use them and they say other people cant have them and others are danger to the world?

[/quote]

People like you just don't get it, learn your history then come back to me on the whole "THE US IS THE MOST EVIL NATION EVER" I'm sick of this mentality. Every nation has comitted crimes against humanity 75% of today's nations admit to using torture since 2000 so stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. China anyone? What about the treatment of the Roma? What about the entire continent of Africa? Do you know about the race based warfare going on in that continent? There are gross violations of human rights everywhere.

I'd love to have a nuclear free world but it isn't going to happen any time soon and with nuts like those really in charge of Iraq I don't think that nation needs nuclear weapons.[/quote]

Learn YOUR history, USA is the biggest evil warmonger there is, its PURE evil, fact. They are hypocrits and lie to their own people and kill innocent people in iraq and now they want iran, you are a RETARD if you defend them. Also why are you bringing up other countries into this? we are talking about usa being hypocrits about NUCLEAR WEAPON, dont start talking about irrelevant stuff.[/quote]

"stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. "

I'm a retard for not buying into propaganda and thinking with a clear head? I'm sorry but you're official one of the least observant people I've ever spoken to.

Everything I brought up is relevant to my point which obviously flew over your head

You are so naive if you think all the issues in the world are all on the USA's shoulders.

"BEING HYPOCRITES" every nation is a hypocrite. Amm I defending the US no, I'm making a point a point most aren't willing to accept.[/quote]

whats your point? of course other countries are evil too but we are talking about usa now and what they are doing, they START wars and they are HYPOCRITES, get it? they want to expand their empire and at the same time enslave their own population will less and less freedom and more big brother, its a global plan, fact.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:32

[quote name="zim"]where are you from karma?[/quote]

Im iranian

Noyka · Post by **Noyka** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:41

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]funny hypocrits those americans(the government) they have loads of nuclear weapons and actually the only country to ever use them and they say other people cant have them and others are danger to the world?

[/quote]

People like you just don't get it, learn your history then come back to me on the whole "THE US IS THE MOST EVIL NATION EVER" I'm sick of this mentality. Every nation has comitted crimes against humanity 75% of today's nations admit to using torture since 2000 so stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. China anyone? What about the treatment of the Roma? What about the entire continent of Africa? Do you know about the race based warfare going on in that continent? There are gross violations of human rights everywhere.

I'd love to have a nuclear free world but it isn't going to happen any time soon and with nuts like those really in charge of Iraq I don't think that nation needs nuclear weapons.[/quote]

Learn YOUR history, USA is the biggest evil warmonger there is, its PURE evil, fact. They are hypocrits and lie to their own people and kill innocent people in iraq and now they want iran, you are a RETARD if you defend them. Also why are you bringing up other countries into this? we are talking about usa being hypocrits about NUCLEAR WEAPON, dont start talking about irrelevant stuff.[/quote]

"stop acting like it's all the US when it's not. "

I'm a retard for not buying into propaganda and thinking with a clear head? I'm sorry but you're official one of the least observant people I've ever spoken to.

Everything I brought up is relevant to my point which obviously flew over your head

You are so naive if you think all the issues in the world are all on the USA's shoulders.

"BEING HYPOCRITES" every nation is a hypocrite. Amm I defending the US no, I'm making a point a point most aren't willing to accept.[/quote]

whats your point? of course other countries are evil too but we are talking about usa now and what they are doing, they START wars and they are HYPOCRITES, get it? they want to expand their empire and at the same time enslave their own population will less and less freedom and more big brother, its a global plan, fact.[/quote]

My point is the media has blindsided everyone. People are so quick to blame the US for everything that they miss the bigger problems.

My understanding is members in Iran's leadersh believes bringing the coming of the 12th Imaun requires world chaos which would mean unlike the US and other nations who have nuclear arms they wouldn't be afraid to use them. That's the simplified version.

I agree with you about the US's control issues but that's every nation lead by the left not just the US including China. I mean look what China did to Tibet and Taiwan. Also you are aware it's the government and not the people right? Most Americans are against a lot of what's going on right now.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:47

Noyka

Of course im aware that its the government and not the people. I dont like muslim countries and their way of thinking either, they both suck equally, both usa and irans government, they are all evil. Also it has nothing to do with the left, both parties work for the same people, its just a show in front of the people, in reality the elite bankers control the entire government, the president is just a puppet and continues what the previous puppet bush did. The end goal is to make a 1 world government with all people being watched 24/7 and its heading that way.

Noyka · Post by **Noyka** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:53

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]Noyka

Of course im aware that its the government and not the people. I dont like muslim countries and their way of thinking either, they both suck equally, both usa and irans government, they are all evil. Also it has nothing to do with the left, both parties work for the same people, its just a show in front of the people, in reality the elite bankers control the entire government, the president is just a puppet and continues what the previous puppet bush did. The end goal is to make a 1 world government with all people being watched 24/7 and its heading that way.[/quote]

Left =/= democrat left is progressive/liberal thinking in general and that's what most of the western world is under (this includes communism and socialism).

Progressives are running most major countries and this is where the corruption is.

So you believe things will be like 1984?

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 14:02

[quote name="Noyka"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]Noyka

Of course im aware that its the government and not the people. I dont like muslim countries and their way of thinking either, they both suck equally, both usa and irans government, they are all evil. Also it has nothing to do with the left, both parties work for the same people, its just a show in front of the people, in reality the elite bankers control the entire government, the president is just a puppet and continues what the previous puppet bush did. The end goal is to make a 1 world government with all people being watched 24/7 and its heading that way.[/quote]

Left =/= democrat left is progressive/liberal thinking in general and that's what most of the western world is under (this includes communism and socialism).

Progressives are running most major countries and this is where the corruption is.

So you believe things will be like 1984?[/quote]

yes i do. Sure there are differences between left and right but BOTH parties work for the same people behind the curtain, they both want war, they both take away civil liberties etc, the main goal is the same for both as they both work for the same people. Its definitely going to be like 1984 in the end, more and more control and big brother. Think about "the war on terror" how do you win it since everyone can be a terrorist? you win it by knowing what everyone does 24/7 so no one can do any terror, its basically a war on freedom and privacy.

TamPron · Post by **TamPron** » 30 Sep 2009, 15:06

TOO MUICH CHILI

Lavabug · Post by **Lavabug** » 30 Sep 2009, 18:21

Nuclear arms in the hands of a country run by theocrats that believe in armageddon and have issued death warrants to novelists living abroad for offending their religion(see: Salman Rushdie) makes me a little bit uneasy. Hopefully Iranians will give the Ayatollah the boot and establish a government that isn't run by theocratic fascists. The election protests earlier this year are clear signs that there's a lot of unrest in the country.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 18:25

[quote name="Lavabug"]Nuclear arms in the hands of a country run by theocrats that believe in armageddon and have issued death warrants to novelists living abroad for offending their religion(see: Salman Rushdie) makes me a little bit uneasy. Hopefully Iranians will give the Ayatollah the boot and establish a government that isn't run by theocratic fascists. The election protests earlier this year are clear signs that there's a lot of unrest in the country.[/quote]

yes but usa isnt any better with their plan to enslave the whole world with a 1 world government dictatorship, nwo, 1984. Btw usa is a fascist country, fact.

Lavabug · Post by **Lavabug** » 30 Sep 2009, 20:29

Oh excuse me, I thought this thread was about Iran, not about blaming the ills of the world on the US. I'll be leaving now.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 30 Sep 2009, 20:48

[quote name="Lavabug"]Oh excuse me, I thought this thread was about Iran, not about blaming the ills of the world on the US. I'll be leaving now.[/quote]

excuse me but its usa wanting a reaon to attack iran that this topic is about in the first place so.

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 30 Sep 2009, 21:29

We have to nuke those muslim dogs before it's too late

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 30 Sep 2009, 21:35

I think someone should infiltrate islam, work their way up to become the pope of islam, and then believe that the true god wants us all to boogie.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 00:08

do you want to know my opinion?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 01 Oct 2009, 00:18

Again, Karmakane has brought on more fail than I can grasp.

Don't even bother, Noyka. Nutters like this are too deluded for any sort of discourse involving reality or things like facts.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 00:20

hes right about some things ya know

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 00:47

[quote name="abzu"]Again, Karmakane has brought on more fail than I can grasp.

Don't even bother, Noyka. Nutters like this are too deluded for any sort of discourse involving reality or things like facts.[/quote]

"nutters" you mean people who is able to LOGICALLY see through things like this and speak the TRUTH. Whats hard for you to grasp? usa is a hypocrit, they have nuclear weapons and the ONLY country to ever use them and they dont want to let iran even use nuclear technology for fuel?

face the facts, usa wants to expand their empire and want a reason to start a new war, YOU are the nut if you cant grasp these simple logical things.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 00:49

there is no truth, son.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 01 Oct 2009, 00:57

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="abzu"]Again, Karmakane has brought on more fail than I can grasp.

Don't even bother, Noyka. Nutters like this are too deluded for any sort of discourse involving reality or things like facts.[/quote]

"nutters" you mean people who is able to LOGICALLY see through things like this and speak the TRUTH. Whats hard for you to grasp? usa is a hypocrit, they have nuclear weapons and the ONLY country to ever use them and they dont want to let iran even use nuclear technology for fuel?

face the facts, usa wants to expand their empire and want a reason to start a new war, YOU are the nut if you cant grasp these simple logical things.[/quote]

Nutters who think their experiences tripping on shrooms are more real than reality. Nutters who spout conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory with absolutely no evidence despite evidence to the contrary. Nutters like you.

On a whole I don't think anyone should use nuclear anything, fuel or otherwise, but Iran should be able to use nuclear tech for fuel ONLY under severe monitoring and regular inspection (they've frequently made threats to other nations and given good cause for said concern). Being the way they are, people have very good cause to say they shouldn't, no matter what the US may have done in the past. It is not a matter of hypocrisy.

I have fired a gun before. Does that make me a hypocrite when I say certain people shouldn't own them?

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:01

[quote name="abzu"]

Nutters who think their experiences tripping on shrooms are more real than reality.[/quote]

Hey! i take offense to that

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:01

and whos to say what reality is?

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:03

[quote name="abzu"]

I have fired a gun before. Does that make me a hypocrite when I say certain people shouldn't own them?[/quote]

yes

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:03

abzu

If your vision is 10 times better and you see everything much better and your hearing is 10 times better under psychadelics that means its MORE real than this reality. If bush, gordon, henry kissinger openly talk about new world order its a conspiracy theory?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:05

Reality is many things, but what it is not is the skewed imaginings and perceptions offered by impairing your brain on a particular substance.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:08

im just being a dick

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:11

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]abzu

If your vision is 10 times better and you see everything much better and your hearing is 10 times better under psychadelics that means its MORE real than this reality.[/quote]

ok thats just silly. if you shouldve learned anything from psychedelics its that nothing is

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 01 Oct 2009, 01:14

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 02:01

[quote name="Teignub"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]abzu

If your vision is 10 times better and you see everything much better and your hearing is 10 times better under psychadelics that means its MORE real than this reality.[/quote]

ok thats just silly. if you shouldve learned anything from psychedelics its that nothing is[/quote]

what you experience under psychadelics is more real than the reality we experience now, fact.

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 02:02

[quote name="abzu"]Reality is many things, but what it is not is the skewed imaginings and perceptions offered by impairing your brain on a particular substance.[/quote]

Its all data, if you recieve other data who says its less real? its all data, this world is a virtual reality.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 05:24

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="Teignub"]
[quote name="KARMABLADE"]abzu

If your vision is 10 times better and you see everything much better and your hearing is 10 times better under psychadelics that means its MORE real than this reality.[/quote]

ok thats just silly. if you shouldve learned anything from psychedelics its that nothing is[/quote]

what you experience under psychadelics is more real than the reality we experience now, fact.[/quote]

dude cmon. as one psychonaut to another, what the fuck are you talking about? no reality is more real than another reality. that doesnt even make sense. seriously, you cant make a statement like that and be serious, and you definitely cant state it as fact. stop being a dumbass before you get banned again.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 05:26

This:

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]Its all data, if you recieve other data who says its less real? its all data, this world is a virtual reality.[/quote]

Contradicts this:

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]what you experience under psychadelics is more real than the reality we experience now, fact.[/quote]

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 05:32

[quote name="Teignub"]This:

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]Its all data, if you recieve other data who says its less real? its all data, this world is a virtual reality.[/quote]

Contradicts this:

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]what you experience under psychadelics is more real than the reality we experience now, fact.[/quote][/quote]

what i mean by that is like comparing an old tv with hdtv, when you are psychadelics your vision gets 10 times better, you can see much stronger and variations of colour, also your hearing gets 10 times better, thats what i meant by it being more real. Here is founder of LSD saying the same thing.

[youtube]e2AthHmtytk[/youtube]

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 05:38

ok i know what you mean, but an HDTV is no more real than an old tv. youre still seeing the same fucking thing.

and Albert Hofmann is notorious for being an extreme lightweight and for not knowing what the fuck he is talking about when it comes to interpreting what appears to be happening in psychedelic states.

all im saying is no reality is more real than any other reality. if it is a reality than it is real. no more no less

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 05:48

[quote name="Teignub"]ok i know what you mean, but an HDTV is no more real than an old tv. youre still seeing the same fucking thing.

and Albert Hofmann is notorious for being an extreme lightweight and for not knowing what the fuck he is talking about when it comes to interpreting what appears to be happening in psychedelic states.

all im saying is no reality is more real than any other reality. if it is a reality than it is real. no more no less[/quote]

ok call it more detailed reality, when one knows that this place is a virtual reality and its all just data being interpreted by our sensory systenm then if other data gets in there another reality will be experienced, just like hoffman said with the TV antenna example.

Teignub · Post by **Teignub** » 01 Oct 2009, 05:51

thats what im saying tho. its not a more detailed reality, its a different reality. its no more or less real than "this place"

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 06:42

[quote name="Teignub"]thats what im saying tho. its not a more detailed reality, its a different reality. its no more or less real than "this place"[/quote]

yeah its different, im just saying comparing it with the tv, hdtv example.

methodrone · Post by **methodrone** » 01 Oct 2009, 07:21

why does every topic have to turn into this bullshit?

Charles Bronson · Post by **Charles Bronson** » 01 Oct 2009, 08:21

1. Our government is fucked, but only we the citizens can bitch about this.

2. Our foreign policy in essence is good. We run this bitch.

3. Anyone who "hates America", should be enslaved, their kids shot, and their wives and daughters raped in front of them. Without us, they'd be slaves of the state (USSR).

captain twat. IV. · Post by **captain twat. IV.** » 01 Oct 2009, 10:07

KARMABLADE · Post by **KARMABLADE** » 01 Oct 2009, 10:20

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]1. Our government is fucked, but only we the citizens can bitch about this.

2. Our foreign policy in essence is good. We run this bitch.

3. Anyone who "hates America", should be enslaved, their kids shot, and their wives and daughters raped in front of them. Without us, they'd be slaves of the state (USSR).[/quote]

you must be either joking or extremely out of touch with reality.

Haunty · Post by **Haunty** » 01 Oct 2009, 10:23

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]2. Our foreign policy in essence is good. We run this bitch.

[/quote]

Noyka · Post by **Noyka** » 01 Oct 2009, 10:24

[quote name="KARMABLADE"]
[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]1. Our government is fucked, but only we the citizens can bitch about this.

2. Our foreign policy in essence is good. We run this bitch.

3. Anyone who "hates America", should be enslaved, their kids shot, and their wives and daughters raped in front of them. Without us, they'd be slaves of the state (USSR).[/quote]

you must be either joking or extremely out of touch with reality.[/quote]

He's a troll, I'm not the only one that thinks this