NYTimes, Germany: Anti-Kremlin Group Involved in Border Raid Is Led by a Neo-Nazi

[Grudge]

Told you so.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/26 ... MIFX4SP7NI

[User]

old news and what's your point

[Grudge]

Well this news was from two days ago on a fresh event, so it's not old from that perspective. What's old is the assertion I've made that the Ukrainian leadership relies a lot on these far right racists to maintain power. I'm sharing this fresh report here because some people dismiss that assertion as being untrue or overblown. But it is in fact a reality.

[Corpsepyre]

https://theconversation.com/putins-fasc ... zis-178535

[Grudge]

https://theconversation.com/putins-fasc ... zis-178535

The existence of neo-Nazism in a country and the integration of neo-Nazism into the state are two different things. I scanned through the article you posted, and I feel the evidence for the latter is quite weak with regard to Russia. It is however quite established in Ukraine, however much you and some others seem want to deny it. What the article you shared seems to ignore is the opposition to neo-Nazis trends by the Russian state. Just to give you a few examples here that contradict what you seem to believe.

- In 2014, Russia passed a law against the rehabilitation of Nazism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Again ... _of_Nazism

- In 2021 (before the Ukraine war), Russia passed a law to prohibit the use or public display of Nazi symbols, speeches, or images of Nazi leaders https://www.historynet.com/russia-nazi-law/

- The article you referenced also briefly mentions a neo-Nazi but hurriedly skips over the key point, the fact that Russia put him in jail for life for being a neo Nazi as part of a crackdown on neo-Nazism. My question to you regarding the article you referenced is how is can one mention this individual was put in jail and try to present it as though the state was in his favor and subscribed to his beliefs? It doesn't make any sense. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015 ... -crackdown

- Then Russian president Medvedev calling for a crackdown on neo-Nazis in 2011 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russ ... DP20110117

- More crackdowns https://www.rferl.org/a/russian_neonazi ... 63471.html

[Grudge]

To be sure, Russia does have a serious problem with the presence of neo-Nazism. The difference is that the Russian state sees them as a problem that they need to deal with, whereas the Ukrainian state sees them as an ally to use against Russia. Does that make sense Hammad?

[Grudge]

Read this carefully, especially the part in bold about the integration of neo-Nazis into the Ukrainian state.

Reuters: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

"Many of the National Militia's members come from the Azov movement, one of the 30-odd privately-funded “volunteer battalions” that, in the early days of the war, helped the regular army to defend Ukrainian territory against Russia's separatist proxies. Although Azov uses Nazi-era symbolism and recruits neo-Nazis into its ranks, a recent article in Foreign Affairs downplayed any risks the group might pose, pointing out that, like other volunteer militias, Azov has been “reined in” through its integration into Ukraine’s armed forces. While it’s true that private militias no longer rule the battlefront, it’s the home front that Kiev needs to worry about now.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohe ... SKBN1GV2TY

[Corpsepyre]

I know who the Azov are. I'm not arguing that this battalion doesn't exist within Ukraine, and I'm not defending their shitty views. My point is, when your country's getting invaded by a hostile foreign force, even the Shit Burgers are going to rise up and look to defend themselves and the country they inhabit. Almost every democratic country has some percent of the population that is neo-nazi or right wing, and it's a big problem over in Eastern Europe for one. They are especially attracted by the army and p.olice jobs, for the obvious reason. Yes, we should talk about it, and people should fight against it, but unless those nazis are in power, it could never be a justification for an invasion.

We can spend quite a bit of time talking about US's white nationalist problem as well, which is seething at every turn.

[Grudge]

I know who the Azov are. I'm not arguing that this battalion doesn't exist within Ukraine, and I'm not defending their shitty views. My point is, when your country's getting invaded by a hostile foreign force, even the Shit Burgers are going to rise up and look to defend themselves and the country they inhabit. Almost every democratic country has some percent of the population that is neo-nazi or right wing, and it's a big problem over in Eastern Europe for one. They are especially attracted by the army and p.olice jobs, for the obvious reason. Yes, we should talk about it, and people should fight against it, but unless those nazis are in power, it could never be a justification for an invasion.

We can spend quite a bit of time talking about US's white nationalist problem as well, which is seething at every turn.

These shitburgers you refer to created the conditions for war. The first myth you need to get out of your system is that this was an "un-provoked war". This was provoked. The US has been trying to set up hostile states to surround Russia for three decades. They are doing the same with China with the Pacific alliances. The Euro-Maidan and attacking pro-Russian cities before the war, the Georgian situation, the missile shields in Poland, the expansion of NATO when they promised they wouldn't, attacking Serbia, Syria and other Russian allies, and the overall desire to "balkanize" Russia (read: break it into small parts to divide and conquer). What you are actually saying is that the Russians should just sit and take it, let NATO roll all over them. The only way you could argue that this was "unprovoked" was if you didn't bother to assess the history of the region and the role of the US versus Russia and other emerging powers. It's the sort of mindset that leads one to accept US-NATO intervention justifications at face value. Snap out of it.

[Corpsepyre]

Oh well.

Aur sunao, how are things?

[jawn galliano]

azov and similar were armed specifically as an insurance policy against the post-maidan government. zelensky campaigned and won on popular issues, including a peaceful resolution to the US-Russia impasse. but he cannot govern on those terms, because he will be killed if he does so. the threats to do so are open and public and not in dispute. the prospective killers know they have western backing, and so have little worry about any potential consequences.

[vO)))id]

The real enemy here IMO is the US military industrial complex.

[User]

of course russia since the dissolution of the USSR has been on the back foot geopolitically, which imran here is bitching a tit about, but if putin really cared about russia and the russian people he would have sucked it up, been strategic, used his head, rather than launch this disastrous invasion

all of the deaths in ukraine since 2022 are on his hands (just as those in iraq were on US politicians hands, and before that, most on dictator hussein's hands, etc. blah blah). the US is responsible for the conditions of the majority of shitfuckery in the world since WWII, no doubt, but these conditions are acted in by people who make choices

so well done, dictator putin great legacy of misery you're leaving behind

[vO)))id]

What would the US do if Mexico shows up on their border with missile systems and start doing excersizes there? You think the US would not invade Mexico to stop it?
Since the creation of NATO they have been slowly surrounding Russia and trying to force the east into a corner. You should expect the east to make bonds with their eastern/asian countries.
NATO is just a tool used by the US as an overreach of power, using war and regime change to make billions trying to stay the superpower of the world. Russia had enough of it and snapped back.
I hoped Russia's reaction would've been more diplomatic instead of invading Ukraine and basically saying Yes to the proxy war in Ukraine. Which is US versus Russia but while wearing a "NATO/EU mask".

Not a fan of Putin but I also despise the US and Biden.

Fuck war and fuck politics.

[Corpsepyre]

of course russia since the dissolution of the USSR has been on the back foot geopolitically, which imran here is bitching a tit about, but if putin really cared about russia and the russian people he would have sucked it up, been strategic, used his head, rather than launch this disastrous invasion

all of the deaths in ukraine since 2022 are on his hands (just as those in iraq were on US politicians hands, and before that, most on dictator hussein's hands, etc. blah blah). the US is responsible for the conditions of the majority of shitfuckery in the world since WWII, no doubt, but these conditions are acted in by people who make choices

so well done, dictator putin great legacy of misery you're leaving behind

[Grudge]

of course russia since the dissolution of the USSR has been on the back foot geopolitically, which imran here is bitching a tit about, but if putin really cared about russia and the russian people he would have sucked it up, been strategic, used his head, rather than launch this disastrous invasion

Would you like to provide an example of a "strategic" alternative? Pursue peace and economic cooperation maybe? He tried that, and got the Euro Maidan as a result. Ask NATO to stop expanding all the way to Russia's borders? They asked, were promised, and that promise was broken. Be patient, wait for the Ukrainians to come to their senses with regard to the Russian speaking population? They waited 8 years. What was the strategic alternative here?

[User]

such hypothesizing is a waste of your and my time. we aren't the dictator of russia. detail is unknowable even if we accepted his deranged referent. the point is that invading ukraine is obviously one of the worst things he could have done for almost any concern, the rapacious moron, and he should be blamed for that

go back to your IT job and weekly costco visits with your whiskey in the trunk, texas boy. i'll bring the cheese to this griddle

[Grudge]

Well hey if that's what you want to reduce this discussion to, then I, just like you, can also just double-down on a contrary position, instead of arguing, and wish the absolute worst on the Ukrainians and NATO. And hey, while doing so, I'll throw in some insults about you being an overweight alcoholic wasting time writing a book no one's going to read to get at you for that IT jab. Bring as much cheese as you want.

[User]

hehehehehe

[User]

enjoying my telegrams with russian comrades this morning

[User]

still loving this