Mr. Vincent?!?!?!?

[shubniggurath]

For fuck's sake.



I got my Illud triptych. Beat to shit, as seems to be the case in general. It's nowhere near as nice as the prototype pics.



I open up the (admittedly gorgeous) leatherbound CD book to see the scant liner notes...and I see that Evil D credits himself as fucking "Mr. Vincent." What. The. Fuck. I remember seeing an interview on Latin HBB years ago, and that's exactly how Marilyn Manson referred to himself, as Mr. Manson.



The back of the T shirt that came with it is awesome, except for the fact that it says Illud... which means that I can't wear it, ever.



I'm gonna see If SoM will let me send it back for a refund, instead of a replacement.

[jawn galliano]

i'm pretty sure there's some type of requirement that they accept a return on it. just make a bunch of empty legal-sounding threats if they try to tell you otherwise

[shubniggurath]

Hmm, I'd understood that there were no writing credits in the liner notes. According to my booklet:

-Thor - Blades, 10 More Dead (which we all knew)

-Disco D - Omni Potens, I Was Morbid, Radikult (which I think most of us assumed...)

-Trey - everything else



Also I had assumed that all the "metal" songs were tracked with Rutan, but I was wrong. Looks like he tracked Mea Culpa, Destructos, Too Extreme, Nevermore, Beauty Meets Beast, and Existo. Basically all the Trey songs.



Wow, so Rutan had to know what was coming. Had to be disappointing watching his former comrades destroying their legacy right before his eyes.



Wonder if Dave said "By the way, call me Mister now."

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

I feel bad for SoM realesing such a poor box.

[Uni777]

[quote name="slimegod"]Hmm, I'd understood that there were no writing credits in the liner notes. According to my booklet:

-Thor - Blades, 10 More Dead (which we all knew)

-Disco D - Omni Potens, I Was Morbid, Radikult (which I think most of us assumed...)

-Trey - everything else



Also I had assumed that all the "metal" songs were tracked with Rutan, but I was wrong. Looks like he tracked Mea Culpa, Destructos, Too Extreme, Nevermore, Beauty Meets Beast, and Existo. Basically all the Trey songs.



Wow, so Rutan had to know what was coming. Had to be disappointing watching his former comrades destroying their legacy right before his eyes.



Wonder if Dave said "By the way, call me Mister now."[/quote]

Mmm. I have 4 versions of Illud now. There are no liner notes in any of them.. (do you know what liner notes are?)

There are no writing credits also... just the names for the publishing rights. Those give some insight to songwriting. The only statement concerning writing is that everything is written and produced by MA.

[shubniggurath]

[quote name="Uni"]
[quote name="slimegod"]Hmm, I'd understood that there were no writing credits in the liner notes. According to my booklet:

-Thor - Blades, 10 More Dead (which we all knew)

-Disco D - Omni Potens, I Was Morbid, Radikult (which I think most of us assumed...)

-Trey - everything else



Also I had assumed that all the "metal" songs were tracked with Rutan, but I was wrong. Looks like he tracked Mea Culpa, Destructos, Too Extreme, Nevermore, Beauty Meets Beast, and Existo. Basically all the Trey songs.



Wow, so Rutan had to know what was coming. Had to be disappointing watching his former comrades destroying their legacy right before his eyes.



Wonder if Dave said "By the way, call me Mister now."[/quote]

Mmm. I have 4 versions of Illud now. There are no liner notes in any of them.. (do you know what liner notes are?)

There are no writing credits also... just the names for the publishing rights. Those give some insight to songwriting. The only statement concerning writing is that everything is written and produced by MA.[/quote]



Yes, I know what liner notes are. Liner notes are pretty much any information in the booklet pertaining to the production of the record, whether it's studio used, musicians, producer, publishing, etc. Some of my friends call all the text in the booklet "liner notes," including lyrics. I imagine you've got a different definition for it than I do. Probably in the days of LPs, it may have referred more to text along the lines of what was found in the MA reissues, talking about either the band or the album or both, etc. Or stuff like Karl's breakdowns of where the lyrics came from in Nile albums. But nowadays, I've always heard people refer to liner notes basically as the info in the booklet.



Fair enough, it doesn't list song titles and associated writer explicitly. But as you say, the publishing credits reveal songwriting credits. We know Vincent's imprint is "God of Perverse" and Trey's is "Cutha Hymns" and the other one is Thor's. Isn't "Radikult - God of Perverse, ASCAP" almost equivalent to saying "Radikult, music by Mr. Vincent?"

[Uni777]

Yes, I know what liner notes are. Liner notes are pretty much any information in the booklet pertaining to the production of the record

No. liner notes are the background info on songs lyrics and production as Karl does. Notes written by an artist or 3th person.

On some releases it is an extra sellingpoint. On promo stickers on those releases it usually says: "features extensive liner notes by...."

The rest is recording info and when talking about specific songwriting you talk about credits.

That how the labes and band call it on all the album artwork i've done so far.



This is not to be a wise ass but thats how stuff is called in all email and phonecalls i do concerning it.

[shubniggurath]

Yes, I know what liner notes are. Liner notes are pretty much any information in the booklet pertaining to the production of the record

No. liner notes are the background info on songs as Karl does. Notes written by an artist or 3'th person.

The rest is recording info and when talking about specific songwriting you talk about credits.

That how things are called by bands and record companies for the album artwork i've done.

Dude, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I've been friends with several people that did PR, A&R, etc at various record labels over the years (though they've all been here in the States, even the ones that worked for European labels), and they've almost all referred to liner notes the same way as I did. I honestly don't think either of us is wrong on this.



Anyway, I'm about to post a link for another Morbid Angel show from when they were awesome.

[Uni777]

Yes, I know what liner notes are. Liner notes are pretty much any information in the booklet pertaining to the production of the record

No. liner notes are the background info on songs as Karl does. Notes written by an artist or 3'th person.

The rest is recording info and when talking about specific songwriting you talk about credits.

That how things are called by bands and record companies for the album artwork i've done.

Dude, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I've been friends with several people that did PR, A&R, etc at various record labels over the years (though they've all been here in the States, even the ones that worked for European labels), and they've almost all referred to liner notes the same way as I did. I honestly don't think either of us is wrong on this.



Anyway, I'm about to post a link for another Morbid Angel show from when they were awesome.

Fair enough. I wrote something about publishing just for info's sake:

Isn't "Radikult - God of Perverse, ASCAP" almost equivalent to saying "Radikult, music by Mr. Vincent?"

In this case that is obvious but id does not have to be that simple. A lot of the times publishing is credited to the record labels. Is an old thing which came to life in a age where artists were working with others peoples arrangements and songs. Nowadays you have to be very careful as an artist to get your own publishing per contract. A lot of bands trade it for extra funding for promo for instance in the beginning of their careers. And it becomes a negotiation pont afterwards.

Someone who writes the main body of music does not necceseraly be the arranger of the piece, so it gets shady in those middle grounds. A drummer might not write music but can be very involved with arrangeing the songs. Some bands seperate the music and arrangement from each other. Otherwise that drummer who's worked his ass off on it gets less that he deserves.

[shubniggurath]

[quote name="Uni"]Fair enough. I wrote something about publishing just for info's sake:



[quote name="slimegod"] Isn't "Radikult - God of Perverse, ASCAP" almost equivalent to saying "Radikult, music by Mr. Vincent?"[/quote]

In this case that is obvious but id does not have to be that simple. A lot of the times publishing is credited to the record labels. Is an old thing which came to life in a age where artists were working with others peoples arrangements and songs. Nowadays you have to be very careful as an artist to get your own publishing per contract. A lot of bands trade it for extra funding for promo for instance in the beginning of their careers. And it becomes a negotiation pont afterwards.

Someone who writes the main body of music does not necceseraly be the arranger of the piece, so it gets shady in those middle grounds. A drummer might not write music but can be very involved with arrangeing the songs. Some bands seperate the music and arrangement from each other. Otherwise that drummer who's worked his ass off on it gets less that he deserves.[/quote]

Actually, I concede this point. This happens to be a case where we have a lot of history/context and know that typically it's been lyrics David, music Trey, so it was easy to make that assumption. But you're right--it's not always so obvious.



So, going on a tangent here. Have you read something called "The Daily Adventures of Mixerman?" It was an online diary of an engineer documenting a recording session for some major label's buzz band. It may still be online, but it's also been published in book form. It's probably mostly fiction, but it's a fantastic and hilarious read for anyone that's ever been involved in the creative side of the music industry. Your comments reminded me of it because there's this part where the band, who has yet to make their first record, are sure they're going to be huge, and they're arguing over publishing. Some hard-on bearer in the band tries to have at least one line in the lyrics of every song so he can get royalties for it, and the dudes are sitting around counting how many words in the song, and how many words this hard-on bearer wrote, so they can figure out what percentage of the hypothetical royalties he gets. Anyway, great read.

[H4T3M4CH1N3]

Mr. Vincent? WTF OMG... He thinks he's a major player on this thing?

Dude is deff obsolete...

[shubniggurath]

[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]Mr. Vincent? WTF OMG... He thinks he's a major player on this thing?

Dude is deff obsolete...[/quote]

He IS a major player! In every wrong way imaginable.

[Uni777]

[quote name="slimegod"]
[quote name="Uni"]Fair enough. I wrote something about publishing just for info's sake:



[quote name="slimegod"] Isn't "Radikult - God of Perverse, ASCAP" almost equivalent to saying "Radikult, music by Mr. Vincent?"[/quote]

In this case that is obvious but id does not have to be that simple. A lot of the times publishing is credited to the record labels. Is an old thing which came to life in a age where artists were working with others peoples arrangements and songs. Nowadays you have to be very careful as an artist to get your own publishing per contract. A lot of bands trade it for extra funding for promo for instance in the beginning of their careers. And it becomes a negotiation pont afterwards.

Someone who writes the main body of music does not necceseraly be the arranger of the piece, so it gets shady in those middle grounds. A drummer might not write music but can be very involved with arrangeing the songs. Some bands seperate the music and arrangement from each other. Otherwise that drummer who's worked his ass off on it gets less that he deserves.[/quote]

Actually, I concede this point. This happens to be a case where we have a lot of history/context and know that typically it's been lyrics David, music Trey, so it was easy to make that assumption. But you're right--it's not always so obvious.



So, going on a tangent here. Have you read something called "The Daily Adventures of Mixerman?" It was an online diary of an engineer documenting a recording session for some major label's buzz band. It may still be online, but it's also been published in book form. It's probably mostly fiction, but it's a fantastic and hilarious read for anyone that's ever been involved in the creative side of the music industry. Your comments reminded me of it because there's this part where the band, who has yet to make their first record, are sure they're going to be huge, and they're arguing over publishing. Some hard-on bearer in the band tries to have at least one line in the lyrics of every song so he can get royalties for it, and the dudes are sitting around counting how many words in the song, and how many words this hard-on bearer wrote, so they can figure out what percentage of the hypothetical royalties he gets. Anyway, great read.[/quote]

I think Mixerman is the same hard-on bearer who wrote the ZEN of mixing. Void pointed me in the direction of that. Nice stuff.

[H4T3M4CH1N3]

[quote name="slimegod"]
[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]Mr. Vincent? WTF OMG... He thinks he's a major player on this thing?

Dude is deff obsolete...[/quote]

He IS a major player! In every wrong way imaginable.[/quote]



Let's be fair... Trey shares the same degree of liability on this one

[shubniggurath]

[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]
[quote name="slimegod"]
[quote name="H4T3M4CH1N3"]Mr. Vincent? WTF OMG... He thinks he's a major player on this thing?

Dude is deff obsolete...[/quote]

He IS a major player! In every wrong way imaginable.[/quote]



Let's be fair... Trey shares the same degree of liability on this one [/quote]

Agreed.

[shubniggurath]

[quote name="Uni"]

I think Mixerman is the same hard-on bearer who wrote the ZEN of mixing. Void pointed me in the direction of that. Nice stuff.[/quote]

Yup, exactly, I didn't know he'd written another one. Will have to check it out.