Brexit almost happening, EU may break up

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 24 Jun 2016, 21:47

We can have safe borders Diabolik, with a stronger Frontex :baddy:

The russians will come for you when you're on your own

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 24 Jun 2016, 22:05

the current mood of the west is an ugly one

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 24 Jun 2016, 22:07

[quote="Ninny"]
We can have safe borders Diabolik, with a stronger Frontex :baddy:

The russians will come for you when you're on your own
[/quote]
We've always been alone, even the last time when Russians came for us, well, Hitler gave us a little bit of hand but then we had to figh them out of Finland due Soviets comission order.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 01:26

Are you from Finland?

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 25 Jun 2016, 01:42

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 01:43

Am I getting this right, you preferred Hitler to the Soviets?

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 25 Jun 2016, 01:50

You are getting it wrong. Both were monsters. Soviets especially. 60 million dead.

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 01:51

FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING COUNTRY

WE ARE GIVING THE AMERICANS A RUN FOR THEIR FUCKING MONEY NOW

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:32

[quote="toozey"]
FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING COUNTRY

WE ARE GIVING THE AMERICANS A RUN FOR THEIR FUCKING MONEY NOW

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[/quote]

British Lose Right To Claim That Americans Are Dumber

...at least for the next 4 months until PResident Drumpf takes office. Then it switches back.

crumbswamkghoshthber · Post by **crumbswamkghoshthber** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:33

Dragged myself out of the zlayedcave to go and vote for Remain. Oh well, that's 5 minutes of my time I'll not be seeing again

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:33

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:34

ZLAYED?

crumbswamkghoshthber · Post by **crumbswamkghoshthber** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:35

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:36

EU freed up 1GB of space.

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:36

people wont realise how bad this is.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:37

Hopefully many will follow. EU needs to go.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:38

[quote="diabolik"]
You are getting it wrong. Both were monsters. Soviets especially. 60 million dead.
[/quote]

60 million dead where?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:38

[quote="toozey"]
people wont realise how bad this is.
[/quote]

I'm basically going by what John Oliver said.

My other UK friends have confirmed he's pretty much right.

I think I read something about Google seeing a huge spike in searches for "EU" in the UK after the vote was over.

Methuselah Honeysuckle · Post by **Methuselah Honeysuckle** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:39

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Abzu" data-cid="593996" data-time="1466798539"><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="toozey" data-cid="593994" data-time="1466796081">

FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING COUNTRY

WE ARE GIVING THE AMERICANS A RUN FOR THEIR FUCKING MONEY NOW

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH</blockquote>

<a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz ... r">British Lose Right To Claim That Americans Are Dumber</a>

...at least for the next 4 months until PResident Drumpf takes office. Then it switches back.</blockquote>

I knew someone was gonna beat me to it

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:39

yep, voted for fear, voted on misinformation

spent alot of today calling people bigots and racists at work, people are so fucking stupid, so insanely dumb.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:52

and on the heels of Jo Cox's murder, no less.

believe me, I sympathize with you folks. Well... 48.1% of you. The other 51.9% should go doggy paddle across the channel in February on a full stomach.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:53

What is this prattle about this being a bad thing. This is a great thing. For Britons and the world. You fools.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 25 Jun 2016, 02:55

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:01

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:01

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Lt. Conrad Gillett" data-cid="594004" data-time="1466798895"><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="diabolik" data-cid="593993" data-time="1466796032">

You are getting it wrong. Both were monsters. Soviets especially. 60 million dead.</blockquote>

60 million dead where?</blockquote>
"Some historians attempt to make separate estimates for different periods of the Soviet history, with casualties for the Stalinist period varying from 8 to 61 million." Wikipedia.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:02

I find NO redeeming qualities about the Remain side.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:03

[quote="diabolik"]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Lt. Conrad Gillett" data-cid="594004" data-time="1466798895">

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="diabolik" data-cid="593993" data-time="1466796032">
You are getting it wrong. Both were monsters. Soviets especially. 60 million dead.
</blockquote>

60 million dead where?</blockquote>
"Some historians attempt to make separate estimates for different periods of the Soviet history, with casualties for the Stalinist period varying from 8 to 61 million." Wikipedia.

[/quote]

The entire population of the Soviet Union was 200 million. Are you saying they got rid of more than a quarter of their population. Must be crazy. Makes no sense. Figures that range so wildly from 8 to 61 million are obviously worthless.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:08

Just like with Nazis.

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:09

silly imran

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 25 Jun 2016, 03:11

Much was made about the youth vote in the UK referendum, where they largely voted to Remain.

How about this then:

Youth unemployment in the EU countries goes from 25% to 50%. In Greece 51%. In Spain 45%. In Italy 40%. In Portugal 30%. In France, it is 25%. That's between a quarter to half of all young people whose dreams and ambitions are crushed. These young people might have different ideas than what you expect about the benefits of having EU membership.

The chaos from Brexit argument: well there was chaos before. You just weren't paying attention.

Just ask the Greeks who are still in the EU and have faced an economic depression, massive unemployment, erosion of life savings and pensions, dismantlement of welfare, crushing austerity near complete loss of sovereignty. Even an advanced country like France is suffering with 10% unemployment.

If chaos is the rationale then the Indian subcontinent or America wouldn't have become independent. The markets are unpredictable but they will stabilize in months. Better to face that pain for a few months than to suffer and lose the ability to self-govern for a lifetime.

A devalued pound will make British industry more competitive with Germany. The right to self-govern opens up options to eliminate austerity, advance credit to industry and intervene to protect jobs. Such things are hard to do when economic planning is railroaded by the EU commission.

The ability for Britons such as yourself to migrate to EU isn't a big deal either, since the trends are for citizens of EU countries to migrate to Britain, as opposed to other way round.

The racism argument doesn't seem sincere to me either. The argument there was that somehow membership in the EU got rid of racism...doesn't quite make sense since that was obviously not the case. Were racists mysteriously not in power when UK was in EU? Obviously that is rubbish. Yes, Nigel Farage and others exploited the racist card to win the referendum yesterday, but isn't that something that requires inwards reflection and struggle on the part of Britons, rather than outsourcing the job of abolition of racism to an entity such as the EU.

Regardless, whatever the reasons you think are that people voted for a Brexit, whether racism or whatever, this has the potential to enhance the ability of whatever government will be in place to draft new pro-people reforms or oppose austerity. Austerity, or issues pertaining to the economy through self-governance may or may not be addressed, that wholly depends on the strength of working people versus big business and finance, but *at least* now the country can enter into a state where it *can* do something about it if it wished.

Inside the EU, even such talk about reform is impossible.

shadowalk · Post by **shadowalk** » 25 Jun 2016, 06:51

Hey 2z, you can move here to Manila. I'll take care of you. You can sard all day.

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 25 Jun 2016, 07:56

you did the right thing zlayed

Lavabug · Post by **Lavabug** » 25 Jun 2016, 21:55

Someone convince me why this is a bad thing, I don't see it.

Holocaust · Post by **Holocaust** » 25 Jun 2016, 22:39

I would think that sovereignty is a good thing

Lavabug · Post by **Lavabug** » 25 Jun 2016, 22:59

On the surface it just seems like a dogmatic knee-jerk dismissal of anything good a right wing British party has done purely on the basis that they are a right wing party, and not on its own merits. How can this be so bad for member states or the UK?

After reading this spin on things:

http://rationalradical.me/2016/06/left-celebrate-brexit-uk-just-kicked-neoliberalism-nuts/

and having lived for a long time in a poorer EU state, I can only think this may be a good thing. Living standards, employment and financial independence have been decreasing steadily whereas austerity measures have kept growing ever since Spain joined the union, and the man on the streets in my lands seems to welcome this producing any sort of domino effect.

In my naive understanding of this issue, it sounds like anyone with true leftist values should be celebrating this.

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 26 Jun 2016, 00:30

Yeah, it's pretty weird to see leftists, antifa too (!!!), protesting agaisnt leaving EU. Since when leftists and extreme left has been in favor of federalism?

crumbswamkghoshthber · Post by **crumbswamkghoshthber** » 26 Jun 2016, 01:58

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kasparov's taintbox" data-cid="594036" data-time="1466817990">you did the right thing zlayed

</blockquote>

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 27 Jun 2016, 02:05

diabolik · Post by **diabolik** » 27 Jun 2016, 08:19

Yay for democracy, when the vote isn't correct, we will destroy it.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 28 Jun 2016, 12:58

Well it's going so well! There were lots of lies about what this vote was for and people voted based on those lies.

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 28 Jun 2016, 19:00

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="diabolik" data-cid="594188" data-time="1466992193">
Yay for democracy, when the vote isn't correct, we will destroy it.</blockquote>

Good thing it was a non-binding result

Mesarthim · Post by **Mesarthim** » 28 Jun 2016, 19:28

haven't really been following this that much but did notice that on this side of the pond a lot of conservatards seem to be for it.

is it because they dream of having states leave our union here (which would be disastrous, economically speaking for most red states by the way) or is it really a much more simple explanation such as immigration? I also found it funny that bag of diarrhea inside another, bigger bag of diarrhea was for it but then was against it. way to flip-flop, Cheeto.

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 28 Jun 2016, 22:45

it is both of those things, oversimplified

plus blind optimism

which is not always oversimplified

but is in this case

however the silver lining if it does go through is scotland's independence

however the downside of that is the continued fragmenting of political and economic alliances and the ongoing rise of capitalist enterprises and the fearmongering of reactionary political parties

unfortunately the heat death of the universe is billions of years off yet and will not preclude these effects

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 29 Jun 2016, 06:15

I think US conservatives just hate the EU.

Lavabug · Post by **Lavabug** » 29 Jun 2016, 08:02

[quote="Abzu"]
I think US conservatives just hate the EU.
[/quote]
*any kind of regulatory system that can potentially put a restraint on "free market rights", ie: the freedom of corporations to dump hazardous waste into public waters, not abide by safety regulations, etc.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 29 Jun 2016, 19:52

yeah pretty much

Lavabug · Post by **Lavabug** » 29 Jun 2016, 20:57

More or less parroting a fellating lover's words, the EU is a cool project that started out with the best of intentions and became a bloated money grubbing institution that buckled too easily under pressure from private interests, the IMF and Islamic demagogues.

Bill Clinton · Post by **Bill Clinton** » 11 Oct 2021, 12:00

Brexit

Mesarthim · Post by **Mesarthim** » 11 Oct 2021, 18:42

from what I've seen - the fallout from brexit has been disastrous. tons of regret from those that voted for it. what sucks is even if they rejoin the EU, the trade deals that were in place won't even be close to what the UK once had. all in all a major fuck up and all built on lies that people fell for.

jawn galliano · Post by **jawn galliano** » 11 Oct 2021, 22:12

i can't imagine the EU letting them back in